9 out of 20 students in my class are apparently exempt from mask wearing

[Workyticket]

Taught them in a small room with a slit of a window for 1.5 hours

6 of those 9 had chosen not to take a lateral flow test because their Mum said they didn't have to

Schools and colleges are safe though. Apparently

Teachers in our school can choose not to wear masks if they are more than 2m away from students.

If it's FE that you teach, can't you just stay >2m from all students, or certainly the ones not wearing masks?

The stats say there are fewer cases in circulation now than in October (or even September?)

@noblegiraffe

Keeping distance is far more effective at reducing the spread of anything than wearing a mask is.

But you can't keep your distance in schools. Kids are sat right next to each other. Teachers can't keep 2m away from them either.

I teach. Primary aged. I keep my distance just fine. The lower school teachers have a harder time distancing but so do nursery staff. I don't know any of my colleagues who work with those younger stages who think little kids should have to wear masks. They wash their hands regularly and are more conscious of hygiene than pre-lockdown.

@MNnicknameforCVthreads

Teachers in our school can choose not to wear masks if they are more than 2m away from students.

If it's FE that you teach, can't you just stay >2m from all students, or certainly the ones not wearing masks?

The stats say there are fewer cases in circulation now than in October (or even September?)

This is exactly right. My colleagues all remove their masks when they aren't next to children. This is standard. If they need to walk closer to a child for a one to one chat or to look at a jotter then they put their mask on. Or with older children they just stay apart with masks off.

@MiddlesexGirl

And interestingly one of the key takeaways from this peer reviewed article journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0237691 is that adherence and compliance is the major issue with mask wearing being effective, not the actual science behind it. So thanks *@Vintagevixen* for contributing to the increased risk for the rest of the children and adults in your dd's school.

Thanks for that link - I have had a read.

Couple of initial takeaways - its not an RCT, the gold standard of scientific research.

The authors themselves admit that no fit test, training or instructions will affect usage and therefore adherence and compliance.

Authors themselves admit that cloth face masks quality cannot be measured - the type that the majority of pupils will be wearing.

They actually exclude homemade face coverings from this article and specifically state that.

Lots of mathematical modelling - you would need an expert on code and modelling here to really speak on this.

They use only one epidemiological model - would have to then go back and look at this model and look for any potential flaws here.

Their conclusion only says that masks COULD help combined with SD and hand hygiene - they cannot state this definitively. Have they controlled for factors such as people relying on masks alone and ignoring SD? Lots of people do think masks are magic bullets.

They are modelling for the whole of the US, mot individual states - have they controlled for other factors eg T cell resistance to Covid, population density etc.

These are just a few things I have noted from a light read, will dive in deeper later.

@noblegiraffe

But otherwise don't worry and just keep your distance and wash your hands.

How do you propose that teachers and children keep their distance in a small classroom with 30 of them in it?

It's somewhat age and stage dependent but I manage it and so do my colleagues. I have a class of 32 primary aged children. No cases in the school since March.

The vast majority of people wear masks. That means the vast majority of people who have died have been wearing masks

I'll pick up on this statement too. The vast majority of people who have died have been in care homes, or received care at home. Care home residents do not wear masks, and I doubt many at of those requiring home support wore them either, even for carer visits.

@noblegiraffe

So thanks Vintagevixen for contributing to the increased risk for the rest of the children and adults in your dd's school.

And for spreading misinformation about the effectiveness of mask wearing.

Unless she wants to clarify her comments about the Danish study which didn't look at whether masks effectively reduce transmission?

Need to go back and read it, will hook out the specifics for you and reply! Read it a few weeks ago but obviously would be better to read it afresh.

And no I'm not spreading mask disinformation - just stating my opinion. Anyone is free to access the same academic studies and critique then in response to me, as you have done, which is fine because is that not what debate is all about?

It's somewhat age and stage dependent but I manage it and so do my colleagues. I have a class of 32 primary aged children. No cases in the school since March
I could manage it in some of my classrooms.
In others there were 33+ students in a classroom where there's zero ability for anyone to be 2m apart, including the teacher.

There's also been cases in staff and students. Our head has done the best they can, but the nature of our building means that social distancing is simply not possible.

There is a very real problem of taking the view I've seen on here 'there's no cases in my school/DC's school so everyone else should be able to have no cases too'.

I teach. Primary aged. I keep my distance just fine

Good for you. I teach. Secondary aged. I cannot keep 2m distance from my classes as the classrooms are too small. The front row of desks is so close that I am within 2m of pupils whether I am standing at the board or sitting at my desk.

Lucky you for having a big classroom.

You have a 90 day exemption from testing following a previous positive test. Is it possible some of your students are within a 90 day period of having tested positive previously?

@BigWoollyJumpers

The vast majority of people wear masks. That means the vast majority of people who have died have been wearing masks

I'll pick up on this statement too. The vast majority of people who have died have been in care homes, or received care at home. Care home residents do not wear masks, and I doubt many at of those requiring home support wore them either, even for carer visits.

Well yes, that's another issue. The fact that Mumsnetters lose their collective minds about the risk in schools over an illness that has primarily spread in care homes and the elderly. But the risk analysis is a different question to the topic of masks and their effectiveness.

It doesn't bother me if people want to wear masks to make themselves feel better. I just don't harbour any illusions about how effective they are.

@minniemoocher

Surely FE can mandate - university has a no mask no attendance policy, only a note from the medical centre gets you an exemption and visors have to be worn

Haven't read the full thread but wanted to agree with this, just baring in mind some people like me can’t wear a visor either as my condition is nothing to do with breathing difficulties or anything that would make me more vulnerable to COVID itself (as so many people like to say if you can't wear one you are obviously too unwell to be out at all!). My university has a policy and have given me a lanyard once they checked my medical evidence. The disability service already had my info so it wasn’t difficult to provide and that means I don’t have to explain my - rare and unknown to most of the general public, and almost unheard of in under 50s, I'm just unlucky - condition to every Tom Dick and Harry on campus as it’s already been vetted properly. This is technically not supposed to happen and I could have been an arsehole and said they're not allowed to ask but why would I do that when I can provide the evidence and not get asked again or stared at?! I really wish the government would have put something in place like this to prevent people from lying, the people who are lying don’t care it’s the genuine people who get the brunt of the upset and anger :( like other countries - where there most certainly are exemptions, just not fakers because they know they can't get away with it - most of us who are genuinely exempt would actually be happy for doctors to provide a letter to carry. It doesn't have to explain the condition just state exemption for medical reasons on headed paper. There are lots of arguments against it though of course like the cost, doctors bias, it's tough to balance.

@noblegiraffe

I teach. Primary aged. I keep my distance just fine

Good for you. I teach. Secondary aged. I cannot keep 2m distance from my classes as the classrooms are too small. The front row of desks is so close that I am within 2m of pupils whether I am standing at the board or sitting at my desk.

Lucky you for having a big classroom.

🤷🏻‍♀️

It's a standard newish build school the same as most in the council area. The rooms aren't large. The children don't need to distance. They remain at desks and I sit at the front. I never need to get close to them if I don't want to.

But, it clearly doesn't bother me as much as it does you. The risks are minuscule so I don't worry about it.

primarily spread in care homes and the elderly

Secondary kids were the most infected subset of the population just before Christmas. They are now one of the least infected due to school closures, showing that covid was being spread very effectively in secondary schools.

"The stats say there are fewer cases in circulation now than in October (or even September?)"

In September the daily cases were between 1,900 and 6,000. They started to increase rapidly through October.
I wonder what caused that rapid rise?
We are currently around 6,000 cases per day, so bearing in mind what happened in October last year, I wonder what the cases will be like in three weeks time?

@buffyp they are not breaking the law, it is not law in schools it is guidance only.

Which I think is right and proportionate.

@Vintagevixen

She is LFT testing though despite the documented questions about unreliability.

If LFT's are so realiable, why force a kid who has just got a negative test into a mask anyway? Its pointless.

I don't get this either. A child tests negative yet has to wear a mask? What's the point of masking a healthy, non-infected child? Are there that many false negatives?

But, it clearly doesn't bother me as much as it does you.

Because you can sit at the front of the class 2m away from the kids?

Also, primary schools were not nearly as badly affected by covid as secondary schools.

It bothers me when people airily assume that everything is fine for everyone and that people with different opinions are just being obstructive when actually that person is in a pretty fortunate position compared to others.

@LolaSmiles

It's somewhat age and stage dependent but I manage it and so do my colleagues. I have a class of 32 primary aged children. No cases in the school since March I could manage it in some of my classrooms. In others there were 33+ students in a classroom where there's zero ability for anyone to be 2m apart, including the teacher.

There's also been cases in staff and students. Our head has done the best they can, but the nature of our building means that social distancing is simply not possible.

There is a very real problem of taking the view I've seen on here 'there's no cases in my school/DC's school so everyone else should be able to have no cases too'.

I don't think every school should be the same. I do think the risk is very low regardless. Of course it is impossible to keep a distance every single minute of the day. But for the few brief seconds I pass a child or a member of staff here and there I understand the risk is very small.

Are there that many false negatives?

Yes.

You cannot assume that a negative result on an LFT means you don't have covid and should continue to observe all restrictions and mitigation measures.

But for the few brief seconds I pass a child or a member of staff here and there I understand the risk is very small.

Do you understand that your working conditions are not the same as others? Do you also understand that your risk is not the same as others?

If people are claiming spurious examptions from mask wearing, and most are spurious, then they should stay at home and let their family deal with their education.

@noblegiraffe

primarily spread in care homes and the elderly

Secondary kids were the most infected subset of the population just before Christmas. They are now one of the least infected due to school closures, showing that covid was being spread very effectively in secondary schools.

No definitive proof that schools were or were not drivers of infection. They may have had increased infections simply as a reflection of wider transmission in the community outside schools.

I could say the driver of in school cases was the increased community transmission - I have no proof of this.

You might say schools drove the transmission into the community - equally there is no proof of this.

They are both just opinions or theories.

@noblegiraffe

But, it clearly doesn't bother me as much as it does you.

Because you can sit at the front of the class 2m away from the kids?

Also, primary schools were not nearly as badly affected by covid as secondary schools.

It bothers me when people airily assume that everything is fine for everyone and that people with different opinions are just being obstructive when actually that person is in a pretty fortunate position compared to others.

You're getting terribly het up. It doesn't bother me what you think. I understand the risk of catching COVID is very low in general. My school, thankfully, is carrying on quite normally and calmly with some changes in place. It's only on Mumsnet that I see abject panic and hysteria.

Everyone is doing what they can. Schools aren't the only sector who struggle to do everything perfectly. Life goes on...

@noblegiraffe

But for the few brief seconds I pass a child or a member of staff here and there I understand the risk is very small.

Do you understand that your working conditions are not the same as others? Do you also understand that your risk is not the same as others?

Yes, we all do the best we can. Fortunately, the risk of COVID is low in general. And the risk of it being serious if caught is also low. So we carry on doing what we can.