Masks for kids

[bingowingsmcgee]

Is it masks all day then for secondary kids? Can't they just offer all the staff the vaccine and then crack on? Pretty horrible for the kids.

Well I agree. They're is no point! But I don't think teachers would be happy with kids moving around without them? There is no point (based on any evidence that can be provided) that they work, because they're not medical grade! You misunderstand me. There is no point wearing them ONLY to walk around the corridors because they are then sitting in a room together unmasked. I'm not sure what you mean by medical grade. Here most people wear blue surgical ones, but even a fabric face covering with 3 layers will reduce transmission if EVERYONE wears one ALL THE TIME.
You keep coming up with excuses why masks won't work and people keep telling you that in other countries they use them and have virtually no transmission in schools. I don't know how else to explain it to you. If everyone wears a mask transmission is reduced.

I give up. I'll just happily continue sending my DC into school with masks and other measures and be thankful they've been in full time since September.

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@wintertravel1980 the problem with many classrooms is that they can’t always be ventilated very well[/quote]
Even more reason to be wearing masks then

And no talk of redoing the year

DS’s school gave lessons on how to deal with masks and will correct pupils if they see any misuse.

So are the blue disposable ones better than cloth ones?

I got some FFp2 ones when I had hospital appointments but can’t afford them for every day school use

Cloth ones - might as well. But they should have medical grade ones so no, of course they should wear them. Plus they're trained how to use them, how to put them on and off and dispose of them. Err, you explain to the children (we're talking about secondary after all) how to wear and dispose of them? Are secondary children in the UK not capable of that level of understanding? Because primary aged Spaniards have been managing since September.
Seriously, it's not rocket science. You wear a mask, you take a spare and a plastic bag and you change it for a clean one at break. You sanitise your hands afterwards. Why do you think people in the Uk are so special that they don't need to/can't cope with this? The mind boggles.

@ineedaholidaynow

DS’s school gave lessons on how to deal with masks and will correct pupils if they see any misuse.

So are the blue disposable ones better than cloth ones?

I got some FFp2 ones when I had hospital appointments but can’t afford them for every day school use

news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-which-face-covering-works-best-scientists-test-14-and-find-one-actually-increases-risk-of-infection-12046715 Blue disposble ones are better but any mask which prevents droplets will reduce transmission.

In France only the surgical or FFP masks are allowed in schools, not the cloth ones. 2 disposable masks per day are required.

Why do you think people in the Uk are so special that they don't need to/can't cope with this?

I guess people in the UK are wondering why their children have to do something of little value while also contributing to the environmental pollution.

Up until October last year UK schools did as well as schools in continental Europe. The real problems started with the spread of the new strain and I am very, very skeptical that masks would have made a major difference.

Again, going back to my office. We have had zero cases of documented transmission in the well ventilated open area. We had one case of confirmed transmission in a corridor with low ceilings and old ventilation. Two employees chatted for 10 minutes. Both wore surgical masks. One individual who turned out to be pre-symptomatic infected his colleague.

The same pre-symptomatic employee spent 8 hours at his desk in a well ventilated area without a mask. He has not infected anyone else.

@OrangeBlossomsinthesun

Cloth ones - might as well. But they should have medical grade ones so no, of course they should wear them. Plus they're trained how to use them, how to put them on and off and dispose of them. Err, you explain to the children (we're talking about secondary after all) how to wear and dispose of them? Are secondary children in the UK not capable of that level of understanding? Because primary aged Spaniards have been managing since September. Seriously, it's not rocket science. You wear a mask, you take a spare and a plastic bag and you change it for a clean one at break. You sanitise your hands afterwards. Why do you think people in the Uk are so special that they don't need to/can't cope with this? The mind boggles.

And that's the simplistic attitude that leaves them ineffective. It's how to take them off. How to fold them. How not to touch the front, how to sanitise your hands after use. I've seen kids just pull them off from the front and shove them in their pockets, the pavement outside school has disposable ones littered. Can you honestly tell me a 12 year old, whilst interacting with their friends or taking it on and off to eat is going to handle that mask in exactly the same way as a medical professional? My daughter was in between sept and Dec and not off once in spite of her school not insisting on mask use. Were we just lucky? Maybe...but again just show me the evidence that cloth masks that are non hospital grade actually do stop transmission...you can't because there hasn't been any relevant study completed on use in children in schools as opposed to same children not using them!

@LadyPenelope68
Dont be so bloody stupid. Of course thats not the real reason. Though yes, my child has a nice wee face and I'd rather he wasn't forced to cover it. Of course.

I don't think its right to cover a child's face at all, and I cant fathom why you lot think its a good idea.

I would accept that this measure was a necessary one if I had read some evidence to suggest so. Children have had a shit time and we seem keen to keep just that little bit extra unnecessarily shit for them.

Direct me to these studies, please. Somebody has to know why they would be so willing to accept this measure.

That's very anecdotal, why not listen to the CMO and the World Health Organisation on this.

@Jemenfouscompletement

In France only the surgical or FFP masks are allowed in schools, not the cloth ones. 2 disposable masks per day are required.

Yep and yet people compare classrooms. This is my entire point. If they want to do it and have the evidence that it will stop transmission then do it properly and schools should provide 2 proper, medical grade masks and a disposable bag for all children.

You keep coming up with excuses why masks won't work and people keep telling you that in other countries they use them and have virtually no transmission in schools.

Other countries:

• Do not have the new variant;
• Have got more space at school so children can sit further away from one another during the class (I am guessing this is by far the major mitigant);
• Might have better ventilation at schools / better weather so windows can be kept open throughout the school day.

Masks at schools might be marginally helpful but based on the latest evidence from ECDC (published on Feb 15 2021) they are unlikely to shift the dial. Many research papers from last summer claiming that masks are a major protective measure have now had to be rescinded.

Hand gel and temperature checks on entry are likely to be a waste of time. Hand washing, of course, remains useful.

or we could provide this as parents, as Schools have had no extra funding for this

@herecomesthsun

That's very anecdotal, why not listen to the CMO and the World Health Organisation on this.

What the CMO that said it wasn't required for schools when they went back last Sept? And now the vulnerable are (nearly) vaccinated but now we need them? What's changed..again im open to learn....where is the evidence?

@herecomesthsun

or we could provide this as parents, as Schools have had no extra funding for this

Well the 6k Williamson is giving could be spent on it for starters. Or let's see schools lobbying for them, unions crying out for them. Do you know how much medical grade masks cost? There is no way probably half of families could afford them.

@wintertravel1980 I would agree that if other aspects of the UK school situation are worse for transmission,then it is even more important that we use what mitigation factors we have (masks)

Alternatively, would you prefer that we continue homeschooling a bit longer?

@palacegirl77Yes I know masks are expensive, but parents are being asked to provide them in other countries.

I would be very happy for the government to pay for them, you could lobby for that if you don't want to pay yourself

I would agree that if other aspects of the UK school situation are worse for transmission,then it is even more important that we use what mitigation factors we have

I actually agree with the UK approach - try masks in secondaries until Easter and review the situation after that.

However, I also believe we should seriously consider other mitigation strategies where possible. Are there schools where children can have lessons outdoors? For other schools, how can we improve ventilation - is there any reason why some schools do not keep windows open throughout the school day. Also let us stop worrying about fomite transmission and focus on what matters - air droplets and aerosols.

@ineedaholidaynow

So do people think NHS staff shouldn’t wear masks (I’m not talking surgeons or those working with COVID patients)

This.

If masks are so rubbish why does the nhs insist in all its staff wearing them - and I don't mean the proper ppe ones, just the basic blue masks?

I find it ironic that when some of us were not sending children back in sept due to a CEV child or family member. We we told a. Dont be silly boris says its safe
b. You cant expect to keep school place its unfair - deregister or send them

Now the government have admited schools werent safe and a major contribution to the 2nd wave and current lockdown.
So now when they are mandating masks to try and reduce the risks. Its still wrong....
Poor little johny cant possibly be expected to wear a mask but little susan could risk her CEV life or little tom could bring covid home to his CEV parent.

If masks are so rubbish why does the nhs insist in all its staff wearing them - and I don't mean the proper ppe ones, just the basic blue masks?

Because for whatever reason proper observational trials over an extended period of time and RCTs all indicate that masks are much more effective in medical settings than in the broader community.

Masks also tend to perform very well on hamsters and in computer simulations but... people are not hamsters and we happen to live in the real world where even medical masks only produce small to moderate impact based on low to moderate evidence.

Do not have the new variant;
- Have got more space at school so children can sit further away from one another during the class (I am guessing this is by far the major mitigant);
- Might have better ventilation at schools / better weather so windows can be kept open throughout the school day.
The UK variant is present in Spain and classrooms aren't necessarily bigger here, no. Even in the south of Spain it is cold in the winter.

Masks at schools might be marginally helpful So why wouldn't you be in favour of them, especially if you have all the other problems to mitigate?
Face coverings reduce transmission as part of other mitigation measures. If you don't want to use them, accept that you won't reduce transmission as much.If everyone wears them, transmission is reduced. It really is that simple, even if you don't like the answer.

Whatever, my kids have been in school since September and are likely to finish the year as normal. They wear masks and are fine about it. You don't want yours to wear them, well enjoy your continued interruptions to their education.

@bingowingsmcgee

It really surprises me that people are ok with masking kids. Especially primary school kids, and even at playtime

Snap. Why do people want this normalising?