Masks for kids

[bingowingsmcgee]

Is it masks all day then for secondary kids? Can't they just offer all the staff the vaccine and then crack on? Pretty horrible for the kids.

But its not just masks.

Its masks plus handwashing plus distance where possible plus testing.

Our school doesn't accept kids with runny noses unless they have a negative pcr test.

Its staggered playtimes and pick ups.

Its a whole host of measures that schools have put into place in France meaning the vast majority have stayed open since September with the odd class closure.

For info..this is still on the gov website now....

Research from the WHO showed that where masks were recommended for prolonged periods of time, some wearers failed to maintain good handwashing practices or follow social distancing policies, putting others at risk

@palacegirl77

For info..this is still on the gov website now....

Research from the WHO showed that where masks were recommended for prolonged periods of time, some wearers failed to maintain good handwashing practices or follow social distancing policies, putting others at risk

Yes but (here at least) teachers send kids to wash hands between every class, gel points on every classroom door and all tables wiped down by the kids with anti bac spray before and after class. Temperature checks on way in. AND masks.

@palacegirl77

For info..this is still on the gov website now....

Research from the WHO showed that where masks were recommended for prolonged periods of time, some wearers failed to maintain good handwashing practices or follow social distancing policies, putting others at risk

That's just nonsense, the fact that some adults don't wash their hands isn't a reason for children not to wear masks. In other countries they wear masks AND wash their hands and practise SD. That's the point. There is no point locking down and then going back mask less. The lock down reduces rates of infection and then you use all the mitigation measures available to keep rates low, including wearing masks.

Exactly. No going in if you have any kinds of symptoms. Masks at all times, frequent hand gel, tables wiped down, social distancing, windows open, different entrances to keep kids apart, class groups stay and teachers change rooms, temperature checks, it's all part of keeping rates low.

Maybe let Williamson know if you think it's nonsense. It's still sitting on the Gov website. Do you honestly think 12 year olds are going to not touch their faces? Touch the front of the masks? Reuse them etc? That is my issue with them. I'm sure they can help but I'm also sure improper use can have as much of an effect as Jennie Harries said at one of the briefings. The stats showing they "work" just aren't there. They're not hospital grade and won't be used correctly.

And yet in other countries they haven't seen that masks cause problems

@OrangeBlossomsinthesun

Exactly. No going in if you have any kinds of symptoms. Masks at all times, frequent hand gel, tables wiped down, social distancing, windows open, different entrances to keep kids apart, class groups stay and teachers change rooms, temperature checks, it's all part of keeping rates low.

Are you talking about hospital grade masks? Because if so I would get on board with it. Schools should be providing them, medical grade. The bits of fabric that are reused are absolutely pointless and just give a false sense of protection.

@InvincibleInvisibility

And yet in other countries they haven't seen that masks cause problems

Exactly...so maybe they weren't needed at all?

@palacegirl77 what mitigating measures do you think schools should have?

@bingowingsmcgee

Is it masks all day then for secondary kids? Can't they just offer all the staff the vaccine and then crack on? Pretty horrible for the kids.

Staff will have masks too, not just children.

Children all over the world have been wearing masks at school for months, often in primary so much younger as well. They will adapt quickly. If masks mean everyone can be back to school right now it's got to be better, surely?

All year groups all of the time, provided by school.

Largely ineffective tbh, not surgical grade, however even with those the children being children do not use them as PPE should br used. Adults in society don't use masks properly

Imo it is largely to make people 'feel safe'

@bingowingsmcgee

It really surprises me that people are ok with masking kids. Especially primary school kids, and even at playtime

In the uk primary schools aren't wearing masks. In secondary they won't need masks in at playtime outside, if they stay 2m apart from their friends.

The post should read In my school...

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@palacegirl77 what mitigating measures do you think schools should have?[/quote]
Ones which had proven, scientific, evidence based findings. Not just a token gesture. Main thing for me would be testing, hand washing, hand gels (if correct), social distancing and ventilation where possible. As much outside use as possible too. Masks? Yep maybe in busy areas like corridors etc - but they'd need to be medical grade or just pointless.

Why do you think masks shouldn’t be in classrooms?

Most people here wear the blue surgical masks or ffp2 or fabric ones made with 3 layers, you can buy them cheaply everywhere and they are washable.
Why not all the measures you mention AND masks? That's what we're doing here and our kids have been at school since September with no closures, only 4 % of schools across our (massive) region have had to close groups or schools.

And what on earth is the point of wearing masks in corridors but not classrooms? They are sitting in the classroom for at least an hour at a time and it makes them even more likely to be touching the mask if they are putting them on and taking them off.

@OrangeBlossomsinthesun

And what on earth is the point of wearing masks in corridors but not classrooms? They are sitting in the classroom for at least an hour at a time and it makes them even more likely to be touching the mask if they are putting them on and taking them off.

Well I agree. They're is no point! But I don't think teachers would be happy with kids moving around without them? There is no point (based on any evidence that can be provided) that they work, because they're not medical grade!

To be honest, I view masks in a classroom as sort of placebo. They are not particularly effective over extended periods of time but they might make parents and teachers feel slightly "safer" and create an impression that the government and schools are "doing something"

According to the latest ECDC report summarising all the available research, even medical masks only generate "small to moderate" effect on transmission based on "low to moderate" evidence:

www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/covid-19-face-masks-community-first-update.pdf

Another absolutely useless measure which makes people "feel better" is temperature checks. We have had them in our offices since March last year. Our company got hold of the most advanced and "high quality" equipment they could find in the market. 460,000 checks run, 5 people with high temperature sent home and asked to test, none of them turned out to have covid. At the same time temperature checks missed a few dozen genuine positive cases. In retrospect, it was a complete waste of money and effort.

On the other hand, our company also spent a lot of money on upgrading ventilation. That turned out to be the best investment ever. My colleagues and I sit two meters away from one another and we do not have to wear masks while we are at our desks. There has not been a single case of documented transmission in the open area after the ventilation upgrade (since April 2020). We have been in the office throughout the peak of the second wave.

So do people think NHS staff shouldn’t wear masks (I’m not talking surgeons or those working with COVID patients)

It's a shame this thread had to disintegrate into unkindness. As @hamstersarse pointed out, I think we can all see that this is a divisive issue. For me the issue is with effectiveness but more importantly balance. Is the negative impact on children, who have already taken more than their share of the sacrifices during this time, outweighed by the benefit? It sounds like the answer is yes for many, but I would also ask those who 'just don't understand' or 'just don't see the issue' to listen to some of those who have tried to explain the problem. I understand that I can't change this policy and I understand that others have different views and I understand that it means DC can get back to school, but please understand that the experience we are all having during this pandemic is not the same for all, just because some will cope just fine, doesn't mean that everyone will do.

I have two Y7 DDs who have been really struggling at home and displaying worrying signs of anxiety, and I had hoped that this week would bring positive news that would help them but instead we now have two weeks to get through in which they are really anxious about going back to school on top of coping with home learning, lack of social contact, loss of their sport etc that is already happening. They won't be exempt, but they will find it really hard, and personally, for them I just don't feel that this additional measure (on top of all of the effective measures already in place) will bring a significant enough benefit to outweigh that period of stress. As a parent I'm sad, and frustrated that I can't help them with the solution they want. And I don't think those feelings are invalidated because others will have a different experience and a different view.

@wintertravel1980 the problem with many classrooms is that they can’t always be ventilated very well

@wintertravel1980

To be honest, I view masks in a classroom as sort of placebo. They are not particularly effective over extended periods of time but they might make parents and teachers feel slightly "safer" and create an impression that the government and schools are "doing something"

According to the latest ECDC report summarising all the available research, even medical masks only generate "small to moderate" effect on transmission based on "low to moderate" evidence:

www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/covid-19-face-masks-community-first-update.pdf

Another absolutely useless measure which makes people "feel better" is temperature checks. We have had them in our offices since March last year. Our company got hold of the most advanced and "high quality" equipment they could find in the market. 460,000 checks run, 5 people with high temperature sent home and asked to test, none of them turned out to have covid. At the same time temperature checks missed a few dozen genuine positive cases. In retrospect, it was a complete waste of money and effort.

On the other hand, our company also spent a lot of money on upgrading ventilation. That turned out to be the best investment ever. My colleagues and I sit two meters away from one another and we do not have to wear masks while we are at our desks. There has not been a single case of documented transmission in the open area after the ventilation upgrade (since April 2020). We have been in the office throughout the peak of the second wave.

Completely agree with all of this. The ventilation is something that absolutely should have been looked at by the govt. Alas it hasn't.

@ineedaholidaynow

So do people think NHS staff shouldn’t wear masks (I’m not talking surgeons or those working with COVID patients)

Cloth ones - might as well. But they should have medical grade ones so no, of course they should wear them. Plus they're trained how to use them, how to put them on and off and dispose of them.