Masks for kids

[bingowingsmcgee]

Is it masks all day then for secondary kids? Can't they just offer all the staff the vaccine and then crack on? Pretty horrible for the kids.

@ZZTopGuitarSolo

Yes, ECDC recommendation is still to wear masks out of precautionary principle but the underlying evidence (summarised in the paper) shows that the impact on transmission is likely to be "low to moderate".

All the evidence we are receiving from state and federal government, and from public health officials, shows that masks continue to be an important factor in reducing the spread of Covid...

All the advice rather than evidence... The evidence does not change and it is summarised in the ECDC paper. CDC choses to interpret it a certain way because of the "great political divide" between democrats and republicans. Anti-masking sentiment is so closely associated with Trump that everyone questioning the universal need for masking is automatically labelled as Trump supporter and/or Covid denier.

The message in many other countries (e.g. in the UK or Northern Europe) is more nuanced. Yes, masks help. There is benefit but it is marginal (PHE has estimated it at 6 to 15%). We should wear masks out of precautionary principle when downsides are limited (e.g. in shops or public transport) but decisions are not black and white when there are other potential risks involved (e.g. in educational settings).

The use of the word ‘frothing’ for any opinion which either (a) doesn’t match that of another poster or (b) goes against ‘groupthink’ rules is really rather concerning and reminds me of the way men historically belittled the opinion of women.

We should wear masks out of precautionary principle when downsides are limited (e.g. in shops or public transport) but decisions are not black and white when there are other potential risks involved (e.g. in educational settings).

Out of interest what is it that you think means we should be less precautionary in a classroom than a shop?

Out of interest what is it that you think means we should be less precautionary in a classroom than a shop?

There are very few (if any) downsides to asking adults to wear masks in shops or on public transport. The trips are usually quick, short-term discomfort can be managed so all-in-all it is a low price to pay for the potential "low to moderate" reduction in virus transmission based on "very low/low to moderate" evidence.

Masks in classrooms have got potential negative consequences that cannot and should not be dismissed without further consideration. Violetlavenders has listed out some of them on the previous page. Copying and pasting:

However, covering the lower half of the face reduces the ability to communicate, interpret, and mimic the expressions of those with whom we interact. Positive emotions become less recognizable, and negative emotions are amplified. Emotional mimicry, contagion, and emotionality in general are reduced and (thereby) bonding between teachers and learners, group cohesion, and learning – of which emotions are a major driver. The benefits and burdens of face masks in schools should be seriously considered and made obvious and clear to teachers and students.

People will have different opinions on importance of "emotional mimicry and bonding" in comparison to the risk of Covid but it is not (and should not be) a straightforward decision.

PuffinShop also posted quotes of several teenagers who were asked to temporarily wear masks at school. Some were fine but some were not. We should not be dismissing the feelings of the latter in the context that overall benefits of masks are relatively marginal.

I don't think anyone is arguing that we all love masks in other countries, of course we would prefer not to bother, but they do have an effect on transmission in closed public spaces when combined with other measures and, for us, have meant that our kids have been able to do a whole school year, unlike the UK.
The risks are FAR outweighed by the benefits, i.e being able to go to school.

Actually, risks is the wrong word there, the downsides.

@wintertravel1980 I really don’t think secondary age students are affected in the same way as primary age or very young students might be for example which is what we are talking about here.

I can tell you that ANY survey you do on secondary students will bring up students that don’t like/want something but get on with it - homework, uniform, literally any rule questioned about, any trip or activity. I’m sure if you asked adults about mask wearing most would say they don’t like/want it but understand they need to do it. However I also know we had issues early on when students wanted to wear masks in school/lessons and were initially told they were not allowed to. Then after that cause lots of issues they could if their parents said and then eventually we moved to up to them in classrooms but they had to in corridors. There was a fairly large take up - more than we thought there would be at that point.

I don’t know if it was this thread or another where someone talked about the cycling team who looked at marginal gains - and that when you made lots of marginal gains that actually added up to a much larger gain. I think that is similar here - so masks, windows open, LFT etc all might individually seem small but together they add up.

So on balance I think it is well worth pursuing until Easter and then seeing how things have gone.