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Masks for kids

308 replies

bingowingsmcgee · 23/02/2021 19:40

Is it masks all day then for secondary kids? Can't they just offer all the staff the vaccine and then crack on? Pretty horrible for the kids.

OP posts:
OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 25/02/2021 14:50

Maybe because you don't really have to wear them much in the UK people aren't used to them and touch them a lot. It's not a problem here in Spain.
You are clearly anti mask and looking for reasons not to wear them.
Everyone wears them here, it's not a big deal, it has helped keep our schools open while yours have closed. And yes we do have the new variant and our rates are still lower than the uk.

palacegirl77 · 25/02/2021 15:15

[quote Orangeblossom1977]It's only till Easter and just guidance, not compulsory..

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/25/covid-tests-masks-not-compulsory-english-schools-nick-gibb[/quote]
It's interesting that it's not compulsory. I've had to fill in an exemption request for my daughter but wonder why I need to if it's not compulsory.

ineedaholidaynow · 25/02/2021 15:19

Schools may have included it in their risk assessment that pupils will wear masks unless exempt.

palacegirl77 · 25/02/2021 15:19

@OrangeBlossomsinthesun

Maybe because you don't really have to wear them much in the UK people aren't used to them and touch them a lot. It's not a problem here in Spain. You are clearly anti mask and looking for reasons not to wear them. Everyone wears them here, it's not a big deal, it has helped keep our schools open while yours have closed. And yes we do have the new variant and our rates are still lower than the uk.
I'm not anti mask. See that's the problem on here. Anyone questions the logic and you anti this or snowflake that! I happily wear my mask to the supermarket and the hairdresser's like the rest of you, it's not a problem. I don't necessarily think it's doing anything per say but I don't mind doing it. What I object to is putting one on my asthmatic daughter when it's not been driven by evidence it will help and in fact there is a lot of evidence that it won't do anything. I wouldn't care if she went in a deep sea divers outfit if it would absolutely be beneficial. No-one can assure me they significantly stop the spread in teens considering their use of them and that's the issue. Doesn't make me anti mask, makes me want to see facts not whimsical anecdotes. Comparing rates in Spain to UK is probably more likely to be driven by diet and vitamin d levels than mask use anyhow.
palacegirl77 · 25/02/2021 15:20

@ineedaholidaynow

Schools may have included it in their risk assessment that pupils will wear masks unless exempt.
Ah I see, thank you!
OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 25/02/2021 15:26

What I object to is putting one on my asthmatic daughter when it's not been driven by evidence it will help and in fact there is a lot of evidence that it won't do anything. People with asthma manage it fine here. If it's not doing anything, what's the problem? If you think people touch them all the time and that negates their use why do you think that would be different with surgical or FFP2 ones?
Where is all this evidence that they don't work? Up to date evidence, not from a year ago when there was a global shortage of masks?

palacegirl77 · 25/02/2021 15:30

@OrangeBlossomsinthesun

What I object to is putting one on my asthmatic daughter when it's not been driven by evidence it will help and in fact there is a lot of evidence that it won't do anything. People with asthma manage it fine here. If it's not doing anything, what's the problem? If you think people touch them all the time and that negates their use why do you think that would be different with surgical or FFP2 ones? Where is all this evidence that they don't work? Up to date evidence, not from a year ago when there was a global shortage of masks?
Can we just agree to disagree on this? You're obviously very happy to put one on you primary child. I wouldn't be. Fyi my daughter actually can breath better in a medical grade one than a cloth one so we will be buying those and she will still wear them in corridors. If she can breath and is happy she will keep that on in a classroom. As I say, I'm not anti mask, but if it's happening it should be done properly.ypu never mentioned other reasons for the different rates I suggested?
Violetlavenders · 25/02/2021 15:49

Face masks can prevent the spread of the virus SARS-CoV-2, in particular as this spread can occur from people with no symptoms. However, covering the lower half of the face reduces the ability to communicate, interpret, and mimic the expressions of those with whom we interact. Positive emotions become less recognizable, and negative emotions are amplified. Emotional mimicry, contagion, and emotionality in general are reduced and (thereby) bonding between teachers and learners, group cohesion, and learning – of which emotions are a major driver. The benefits and burdens of face masks in schools should be seriously considered and made obvious and clear to teachers and students.

(Trends Neurosci Educ. 2020 Sep; 20: 100138.
Published online 2020 Aug 11. doi: 10.1016/j.tine.2020.100138
PMCID: PMC7417296
PMID: 32917303
Manfred Spitzer1)

lavenderlou · 25/02/2021 16:13

What a lot of frothing by some parents over something that other kids of all ages across the world have been doing for months. I bet the kids themselves are making far less fuss.

Schools were severely disrupted by Covid for the whole Autumn term. Any mitigation measures that can be taken to reduce the likelihood of further disruption should be taken. Masks are one part of that.

FrippEnos · 25/02/2021 16:28

"Back to school at any cost"

"The damage to children's mental health"

"The damage to children's education is massive"

"Think of all the lost hours of education."

"The education gap is widening"

"Wear masks, fuck that. I'm not sending my child in"

The hypocrisy is astounding.

TenaciousOnePointOne · 25/02/2021 16:39

@FrippEnos

"Back to school at any cost"

"The damage to children's mental health"

"The damage to children's education is massive"

"Think of all the lost hours of education."

"The education gap is widening"

"Wear masks, fuck that. I'm not sending my child in"

The hypocrisy is astounding.

Sadly someone I know is so far down the rabbit hole she can't even see the hypocrisy. She believes Covid is made up by the "global government" to control us.
ThatsGoodCakeLove · 26/02/2021 12:01

'The hypocrisy is astounding,'...bullshit.
It's not hypocritical to disagree with a new condition.
I don't think many people were shouting back to school at 'any cost'.

I'm desperate for my child to go back to school, but I have known from the get go that if facemasks were unjustifiably normalised in school settings that I would not be complying. I'm not having him rub hand sanitiser into his broken skin either, call me a snowflake if you like.

Unfortunately, I never slipped down any rabbit hole. That would have been quite nice though.

hamstersarse · 26/02/2021 12:15

Common sense from Professor Callum Semple, an advisor for Sage

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9302955/Covid-Opening-windows-effective-face-masks-primary-school-SAGE-adviser-says.html

There’s no need. That’s the point.

I get that we all want to stop outbreaks and more lockdowns but if ever there was a rabbit hole, getting kids to wear masks is one giant hole we will lose ourselves down

ineedaholidaynow · 26/02/2021 14:54

Maybe the Government will need to do something about schools which don't have adequate ventilation in some classrooms then

MrsHerculePoirot · 26/02/2021 16:34

@hamstersarse

Common sense from Professor Callum Semple, an advisor for Sage

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9302955/Covid-Opening-windows-effective-face-masks-primary-school-SAGE-adviser-says.html

There’s no need. That’s the point.

I get that we all want to stop outbreaks and more lockdowns but if ever there was a rabbit hole, getting kids to wear masks is one giant hole we will lose ourselves down

He’s talking about primary schools which aren’t being advised to anyway?

What about in my (secondary) classrooms where I teach and without windows that open?

How about we open the windows AND use masks? Crazy I know, but don’t know if anyone has considered it isn’t one or the other... 🙄

PuffinShop · 26/02/2021 18:35

Has any research been conducted in one of the countries that is very keen on masks for children into how the children really feel about it? I think children older than toddlers are quite good at masking when things are affecting them, especially if they've been told something is their moral duty or a necessary condition for going to school / seeing their friends (leaving aside the question of whether or not this is true).

I've just been reading the results from a survey of compulsory school children in Iceland (ages 6-16), where children born in 2005 or later are exempt from masks, although briefly this was changed to 2011 and then changed back. So children older than 9 have experience of masks in shops, school and public transport. Translating some bits (source: www.barn.is/frasagnir-barna-af-covid-2/).

From the summary:

"The children mentioned masks a lot and generally found them uncomfortable. They said it was harder to breathe while wearing a mask, although reusable masks were more comfortable. The worst thing was wearing masks for sports and it was a big improvement when they didn't have to anymore. Some children found it harder than others to wear masks, e.g. the children mentioned in particular that it was particularly difficult for children with autism. Many children found it strange to wear a mask at school and mentioned that it was distracting to wear a mask in exams."

From the children's own words (including negative, neutral and positive):

"I feel good at school, not much has actually changed except we have to wear masks and we can't leave our classroom."

"Let's wear masks, follow the rules, it's not complicated, most of us grew up wearing balaclavas."

"When I heard I would have to wear a mask at school I was excited to wear one because I never had before. But after I'd worn a normal mask for one day I really couldn't take it. I was dying, but then I bought some reusable masks, they were much more comfortable and I could manage them better."

"The worst thing about covid is having to wear masks everywhere except at sports practice."

"It was worst in sports, I think, because I love exercising but we had to be outside and walking in the freezing cold wearing masks, it was like a sauna stuck to our faces. Now we still have to wear masks but we can take them off for sports."

"I feel all right, but still bad because you have to wear a mask and use hand sanitiser and stick to the rules and that, which is a bit difficult for me, but it's necessary so that hopefully everything will be OK."

I think it's a mixed bag, just like it is for adults. Some people do struggle with wearing masks, especially for an extended period, some don't. I think adults are maybe more likely to be truthful about how they are feeling about it..

The whole report is very sobering. Children have really been affected a lot, even here where we've had a pretty 'easy' pandemic compared to a lot of countries. I don't believe that children are 'so resilient and adaptable' that they are less affected than adults generally - I think they are just less likely to complain and generally do not have as strong a voice in society. I read all the anonymous answers from the children and many of them described the exact same things I've been feeling myself. One last sentence from the report that I found particularly upsetting: "Some children said that they didn't have a right to feel bad, because other people had it much worse than they did." I know a lot of adults feel that way too!

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 26/02/2021 18:54

I wonder how students feel about wearing uniform?

Mine hated it.

BungleandGeorge · 26/02/2021 19:23

I think it’s ok to admit that a lot of people are uncomfortable in masks and they do make communication much more difficult. The tendency at the moment is to just dismiss feelings and it doesn’t really help. I think it’s fine to say there are disadvantages but the advantages outweigh those at the moment. If you offered the option of mask or no mask and didn’t consider anything else I think the majority of people would go for the latter. I’ve no intention of wearing one myself ad Infinitum, I look forward to the day that risks are lower and I won’t need to

FrippEnos · 26/02/2021 20:17

ThatsGoodCakeLove

I haven't called you a snowflake.

But I will call out hypocrisy when I see it.

Waspnest · 26/02/2021 20:38

Maybe because you don't really have to wear them much in the UK people aren't used to them and touch them a lot. It's not a problem here in Spain.
You are clearly anti mask and looking for reasons not to wear them.
Everyone wears them here, it's not a big deal, it has helped keep our schools open while yours have closed.

TBF not all the UK is like this. DD (secondary school) has been wearing masks when indoors at school since Oct. They only take them off when outside or to eat. Plus she wears it on the school bus for about an hour every day. They've had an absolutely tiny number of positive cases and the headmistress was clearly livid when schools didn't go back in Jan.

I didn't like the idea of kids wearing masks originally but you know what, the kids themselves don't give a shiny shit if it means they get back to a bit of normality and they can see their mates again (with the usual SN caveats obviously).

wintertravel1980 · 26/02/2021 21:02

This thread is going round in circles.

The problem is many people still believe masks offer a high degree on protection (based on out-of-date information from summer 2020 and politicised messaging from US CDC).

However, politics aside, based on the latest comprehensive review of all the available research:

  • Medical masks only have "small to moderate" effect on transmission based on "low to moderate" evidence.
  • Non-medical masks might have "small to moderate" effect based on "very low" evidence.

www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/covid-19-face-masks-community-first-update.pdf

The question is whether it is worth subjecting children to discomfort and potentially impacting quality of education for something that might only have "low to moderate" impact on transmission with "very low to moderate" degree of confidence. The answer is not black and white. If masks had indeed been able to cut transmission by - say - 60 to 80%, it would have been a "no brainer" but we are in a grey area and different people will answer the question differently.

Waspnest · 26/02/2021 21:27

I guess it depends on whether you believe that online learning is as good as classroom learning and whether masks have a preventative effect or not. Personally, I think that classroom learning wins hands down, particularly for vulnerable children and mask wearing does reduce transmission (who knows by how much?) a bit so for me there's no issue.

I think in the early stages the scientists believed that surface transmission was a major issue and how you handled the mask was absolutely vital but that seems to have changed a little.

Now we know that aerosol and airbourne transmission are more important I think that masks are actually more useful. Nobody claims that masks protect the wearer a huge amount but I can well see how viral particles in coughs and sneezes are transmitted less by mask wearers.

palacegirl77 · 26/02/2021 21:28

@wintertravel1980

This thread is going round in circles.

The problem is many people still believe masks offer a high degree on protection (based on out-of-date information from summer 2020 and politicised messaging from US CDC).

However, politics aside, based on the latest comprehensive review of all the available research:

  • Medical masks only have "small to moderate" effect on transmission based on "low to moderate" evidence.
  • Non-medical masks might have "small to moderate" effect based on "very low" evidence.

www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/covid-19-face-masks-community-first-update.pdf

The question is whether it is worth subjecting children to discomfort and potentially impacting quality of education for something that might only have "low to moderate" impact on transmission with "very low to moderate" degree of confidence. The answer is not black and white. If masks had indeed been able to cut transmission by - say - 60 to 80%, it would have been a "no brainer" but we are in a grey area and different people will answer the question differently.

Completely agree with all of this.
ZZTopGuitarSolo · 26/02/2021 23:42

@wintertravel1980

This thread is going round in circles.

The problem is many people still believe masks offer a high degree on protection (based on out-of-date information from summer 2020 and politicised messaging from US CDC).

However, politics aside, based on the latest comprehensive review of all the available research:

  • Medical masks only have "small to moderate" effect on transmission based on "low to moderate" evidence.
  • Non-medical masks might have "small to moderate" effect based on "very low" evidence.

www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/covid-19-face-masks-community-first-update.pdf

The question is whether it is worth subjecting children to discomfort and potentially impacting quality of education for something that might only have "low to moderate" impact on transmission with "very low to moderate" degree of confidence. The answer is not black and white. If masks had indeed been able to cut transmission by - say - 60 to 80%, it would have been a "no brainer" but we are in a grey area and different people will answer the question differently.

From that link you provided.

"Although the evidence for the use of medical face masks in the community to prevent COVID-19 is limited, face masks should be considered as a non-pharmaceutical intervention in combination with other measures as part of efforts to control the COVID-19 pandemic.

Taking into account the available evidence, the transmission characteristics of SARS-CoV-2, the feasibility and potential harms associated with the use of various types of face masks, the following options are proposed:

• In areas with community transmission of COVID-19, wearing a medical or non-medical face mask is recommended in confined public spaces and can be considered in crowded outdoor settings.

• For people vulnerable to severe COVID-19, such as the elderly or those with underlying medical conditions, the use of medical face masks is recommended as a means of personal protection in the above-mentioned settings."

Interesting that you class the CDC messaging as politicised, considering they have been recommending masks for several months now, even when they were politically heavily leaned upon not to do so.

We had a school board meeting last night. All the evidence we are receiving from state and federal government, and from public health officials, shows that masks continue to be an important factor in reducing the spread of Covid, and we will be continuing to require them in our schools - which BTW have been open since last Sept with no closures.

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 26/02/2021 23:43

In the meeting last night the UK was raised as an example of how not to reopen schools.