Employer disadvantaging and threatening staff who haven’t had the vaccine

[MrsFCastle]

My partner works in health and social care. He isn’t an anti vaxxer. Just feels it’s too soon. His employer is furious and is threatening to stop offering shifts if they don’t get it. I’m genuinely concerned about his job security. Can they do this? Helpful replies only please. This isn’t a thread about anti/pro vax.

What the RCN say means Jack shit and they don’t represent the vast majority of care home staff anyway.

Bluntness is not fear mongeriing either and is perfectly correct in what she says.

Ultimately there is no government guidance and it’s still to be legally tested so there’s no answer yet as to how legal cases will be decided. I suspect as Bluntness says a lot of people will lose jobs before we have an answer.

Employment wise vaccines were already part of pre-employment checks in the NHS... Hepatitis vaccine as previously mentioned (as part of occupational health checks). I dunno what would would have happened had I refused the hep B shots, maybe I would not be allowed on wards and thus unable to do part of my job and the offer of employment would have been withdrawn.... Different I suppose if you are already in post, but if he doesn't have a substantive full time post and is contracted on zeroe hours then he probably wants to get some decent employment law advice to see where he stands...

@animalfarmagain

People talking about compulsory vaccines in the UK are fear-mongering.

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s fear mongering. There is mandatory vaccination in plenty of other jobs already.

I’m going to hazard a guess that a lot of the selfish idiots refusing vaccines in care homes have also been the ones who “can’t breathe” in surgical masks. 🤣

Sorry not sure where the 🤣 came from.

The thing is, we are clearly going to see more of this, and it was so so predictable employers would go this route, and defintely anyone working with vulnerable people or going into peoples homes.

The government will eventually land it and a law passed, but it will take months and months, until then people can refuse to take the vaccine and many employers will fire them, either citing this as the cause, or some other made up bullshit, and then there will be a legal battle, one where the outcome is not obvious.

It’s very different if you can’t have it for medical reasons, but if you choose not to have it, then all bets are off. Because arguably you’re deliberately posing a heightened risk to those around you.

The choice not to have it can’t be made in a vacuum, it needs to be made in light of the repercussions in making that decision, both in terms of employment and your risk to others and wider society.

@TheKeatingFive not quite correct, you can still pass on the virus if you have had the vaccine. The vaccine just lessons your symptoms.

you can still pass on the virus if you have had the vaccine. The vaccine just lessons your symptoms.

Data is increasingly clear that vaccines impact transmission.

Anyway, those who’ve had the vaccine are at least taking all steps available to them to stop those who can’t have the vaccine getting it.

I think of you are working in a job caring for vulnerable people and you refuse the vaccine without a valid reason you are probably in the wrong profession. Anyone that would knowingly put these people at risk is clearly not suited to their job and I certainly wouldn't want them anywhere near my elderly parents.

Well are employers going to indemnify those unlucky few that do react to the vaccine? Because that’s where a mandatory vaccine for jobs takes us

There are several people unable to work after developing narcolepsy following the swine flu vaccine. Nae compensation and they can’t work

Driving is a mandatory part of many people's jobs and it's far riskier than getting a vaccine. I think employers will be safe on that one.

It’s far more shaky than that though. Liability on the road is very different. An employer is too far removed. However even then, if an employer was expected to drive and speak
through Bluetooth on meetings and crashed, that could lead to a claim.

If it is a condition of employment to take the vaccination then there will be liability issues

Perhaps you are right? Much easier to manage out and replace unvaccinated staff in places like care homes, I suspect.

He needs to join a union ASAP.

If it is a condition of employment to take the vaccination then there will be liability issues

No. Not true. Lots of jobs already need compulsory vaccines as a condition of employment - healthcare and social work.

Yes but we know the long term data for those vaccines

We are conducting a massive long term experiment

I find people who are 'waiting for long term effects' strange. If they believe they're correct and special, what would they think if every single person in the UK also felt the same and we had to live like this for the forseeable? How long would they want to wait for those tested with the vaccines?

It's the same thought with anti-vaxxers. If they truly believe vaccines cause more harm than the diseases they prevent, how would they feel if those diseases were then spreading about amongst all children because no one had a vaccine anymore? I just can't fathom this chain of thought.

He's an idiot who is endangering the people he should be looking after.
I hope he loses his job if he doesn't have it.

The Guardian says this morning that Barchester care homes have taken legal advice and that requiring vaccine may come under the "some other compelling reason" to dismiss or refuse shifts. I think employers would win this actually, on that basis.

95% people apparently support vaccine passports, according to a Yougov poll.

Because some of us are very cautious with our health and “trust” of governments. Very often it’s because we have suffered adversely in terms of health due to negligence. It makes you see things differently

@HarrietOh I'm not sure they do think. The reaction isn't logical, or even based on medical reasoning. I unpicked a conspiracy video with one person, having consulted a relative who is a doctor. They weren't having any of it. Doctors are all incompetent, apparently.

You do realise that a significant minority of doctors have refused the vaccine don’t you?

@Downthefarm Can you post a link please?

For the Yougov poll. Probably me, but I couldnt find it. Thanks.

95% people apparently support vaccine passports, according to a Yougov poll

Blimey - well I am categorically in the 5%. I support healthcare workers having to have the vaccine but see no reason why people should need one to go to Tescos or Costa or to have to buy a compatible smartphone to get the app to get on with normal life. I don't have to have any other vaccines so why this one?

All the fuss about ID cards, which would have actually been useful to avoid all the mountains of paper you need to open a bank account, but most people are happy about queuing up outside a supermarket t show their app to a security guard? I don't think people have thought it through.