Why are people determined to believe the absolute worst?

[TheDailyCarbunkle]

As of Jan 21st 4,717 people in England between the ages of 0-59 died with coronavirus. That includes people with severe health conditions who are very vulnerable to all illnesses. Considering there are about 50.6 million people in that age group in England, that number represents 0.0093% of that age group. To put that number in context, in 2018 27,198 people under the age of 64 died of pneumonia and influenza (which are categorised together by the ONS) - conditions that most people don't worry very much about, especially if they are generally healthy.

In Sweden, the number of deaths of people under 70, as of Feb 2021, is 1,113. Again that includes clinically vulnerable people. It represents about 0.013% of that section of the population. That's with schools open for younger people the whole time, shops and restaurants open, hairdressers open, gatherings of up to 50 people allowed etc etc.

All over the world, no matter what the mitigation measures have been, the deaths of under 70s have been low, especially when compared to other respiratory illnesses like pneumonia and flu. The threat to people under 70, even people who are clinically vulnerable, is not high. The threat to people with no illnesses is extremely low, so low that at times the ONS has had to stop reporting it.

So why do people still believe they're in huge danger?

I’m not sure why people who are young and not clinically vulnerable are scared of the virus. I think some people have a misplaced idea they are immortal so any hint of death terrifies them. The numbers are tiny and the chance of death from Covid for most even those over 70 or 80 really low.
I think our unfamiliarity with death has led to a lot of confusion. I was told a story the other day of a woman in her fifties who had died fairly suddenly of covid. She also had cancer which was palliative and though I wasn’t privy to all the details with the type of cancer and the length from diagnosis she had likely survived beyond what would have been expected. Sometimes people with cancer have a slow decline and sometimes they die suddenly as they are vulnerable to infection. I’ve seen this happen often but usually we don’t know what bacteria or virus causes the final decline as we don’t swab for all viruses. However because of the current regime the family believe this ladies death would not have happened had covid not been around which is probably untrue. Even more tragically she lost the last year of her life to fear and virtual house arrest. The restrictions are causing serious harm now and should be stopped. They were only ever acceptable as a short term mesure. I’m not sure whether politicians are unable to weigh up risks or there is some other explanation lurking behind all this.

I’ve come to the conclusion that a lot of people are just trolling. The same usernames crop up over and over again: the ones now saying that there’s still a clear and present danger / that we’re removing restrictions too quickly / that it’s all going to go wrong are the same ones who back last year were confidently telling us all that we’d better get used to reality because there was never going to be a vaccine, no vaccine had ever been developed for a coronavirus, even if it could be it was going to take at least ten years and probably closer to twenty. The same ones claiming they knew from a close source that the government had made detailed plans for a decade of rolling lockdowns. The same ones predicting the second wave after every sunny bank holiday or relaxation of restrictions. I don’t know what the motivation is, but I don’t believe these people are genuinely afraid.

Ok, and now the NHS is able to cope things are going to be opening up again so your point is....?

What is YOUR point and what does it have to do with the OP?

The NHS is nearly “overrun” every year in flu season btw.

Yes. And it has to cope with that AND covid AND heart attacks AND cancers AND RTAs AND everything else. Which was my point exactly.

It's not really dying I'm scared of... but I do know of many people in the 25-55 age bracket who've had covid and now have long term consequences. And I don't just mean post-viral fatigue but permanent lung damage, permanent kidney damage and so on that doctors have confirmed is very unlikely to get better - these were previously healthy people, too. I'm quite worried about something like that happening for me, for various reasons that made me feel vulnerable even though I may not be classed as clinically vulnerable.

@Haffiana

I think you’ve missed the point of what the OP is saying.

She’s saying that there are a significant number of people whose fear of the getting the virus (as it relates to them personally) is disproportionate to the actual statistical risk they face.

As I read it, she’s not arguing that the virus doesn’t have a wider impact on the provision of health services or that we shouldn’t be concerned about it.

Nope. She asked "So why do people still believe they're in huge danger?"

If health services are overrun, then we are in danger. The fact that our individual chance of dying directly from covid DESPITE NHS TREATMENT is small is irrelevant.

The danger is because we are at risk of dying indirectly from it either because we cannot be treated or because we cannot be treated for something else that would normally have a good chance of survival.

But the danger is still very tiny indeed.

@Timbucktime

Some people are addicted to fear like an alcoholic to alcohol

Agreed

The same usernames crop up over and over again: the ones now saying that there’s still a clear and present danger / that we’re removing restrictions too quickly / that it’s all going to go wrong

Yep! Same people bleating on about how the point of it all was to keep the NHS from being overwhelmed. And now it is no longer overwhelmed saying “well, just you wait and see in a month or two when schools go back”. It’s tiresome and just wearing very, very thin.

I’ve come to realise that actually there are more people with mental health and anxiety issues than I realised

Mumsnet seems to be full of irrational people who I genuinely believe need some form of help after all this

If you cannot rationalise and assess personal risk properly l that’s massively unhealthy and if you project it onto your kids, dangerous

There are people on here for whom I really worry about their kids mental health

Lockdown suits some people. And there are always those who revel in whipping up drama.

Without the lockdown the deaths would have been far higher. In all age groups. I’m not ok with that! Lockdown was necessary and worked.

@Haffiana

Because it isn't about deaths. It is about those who are very sick filling up and overwhelming the hospitals which means that even those who are well cannot access services if they need them.

As has been pointed out by every scientist, newspaper and politician and even by every slogan.

Where have you been, OP, that you have managed to completely MISS what the danger is?

Why are you MISREPRESENTING what the danger is?

Are you another Russian bot?

Ok. I should have known that people would need it spelled out to them sorry.

Why do people think they are in serious danger of dying of coronavirus?

@MereDintofPandiculation

Because some people, even on MN, are over 59, and they're not very comforted by people saying "there have been hardly any deaths in people under 59".

Even if you're over 90, with multiple health conditions, you're still far far far more likely to survive covid than die from it.

@Jangle33

Without the lockdown the deaths would have been far higher. In all age groups. I’m not ok with that! Lockdown was necessary and worked.

People say this crap with no scientific proof to back it up.

Where was the fear in 2018 when 27,198 people under the age of 64 died of flu and pneumonia - over five times the number who've died of coronavirus?

@animalfarmagain

Organisations target SM, including MN, to ramp up fear, prolong fear, shame dissenters, censor controversial comments, encourage posters to jump on the bandwagon of shaming, stoke more fear and so on.

People who aren't fearful switch off and avoid MN so the balance is tipped in favour of an even more fearful vibe with more hysteria and nonsense being peddled.

This!

I am always more intrigued by the posters on MN who know 'tons' of people who have lifelong complications from covid under the age of 50.

And those who claim 'most of the NHS worker I know say under 40's are filling up ICU's.

Who truly, really knows THAT many people who are in serious urgent care?

My mum died in November from an issue not related to covid. She tested positive in hospital (where she caught it) and had no covid symptoms. A week later, when she died, her death cert states covid 19.
She isn't the only one....
I don't have a clue why this happens, but the hospice nurse told me it was common.

Aside from this, I know only one other person who had covid, she was 62 and sadly died after being on a ventilator for a week. So I have only known of a handful of people with it altogether, but I do have a very small social circle/family. I reckon we've had it, and my sister, but we never felt very ill or had a test as were already isolating.

I can sympathise with both sides. But I do feel we are living unnaturally now, and as long as the gov can keep the NHS working ok I do think we need to approach some sort of return to normal. Like Boris, I don't believe this is a new normal, I do think, like after other pandemics in human history, we will resume normality soon.

I am not a fan of BJ, but I think he did ok last night.

I am not sure that people are primarily worried about DYING of Covid.

But I think they can be worried about the NHS being overrun with Covid cases and concerned that other health requirements would not be able to be met.

We all live in an interconnected society, whether you personally like that or not. Perhaps you or your loved ones have never needed the NHS but it would be very scary, myself thinking back, if the NHS hadn't been there when we needed it (think grandad dying in agony in grandson's bed on birthday type of situation) the NHS meant this didn't happen (thank you again).

So no I am not "scared of dying of Covid". But am quietly concerned that an overrun, broken NHS would be less than ideal.

Also, I very, very rarely read about covid online. I used to read MN a lot and Reddit's covid section, but stopped some time ago. I can say that my own fear and pessimism was super high when reading these threads.
When not reading about it online I simply kept track of the daily numbers and that was that. My mental health and blood pressure were in a much better state! If anyone is feeling stressed and irritated by so many opinions, it's a good idea to just take time out and do other stuff. Spoil yourself, make art, movie binges, etc.
Suddenly everything looks more optimistic and your natural sense of perspective returns.

@frozendaisy

I am not sure that people are primarily worried about DYING of Covid.

But I think they can be worried about the NHS being overrun with Covid cases and concerned that other health requirements would not be able to be met.

We all live in an interconnected society, whether you personally like that or not. Perhaps you or your loved ones have never needed the NHS but it would be very scary, myself thinking back, if the NHS hadn't been there when we needed it (think grandad dying in agony in grandson's bed on birthday type of situation) the NHS meant this didn't happen (thank you again).

So no I am not "scared of dying of Covid". But am quietly concerned that an overrun, broken NHS would be less than ideal.

That's not the fear I'm talking about. The fear I'm talking about, which many people have, is that they themselves, personally, will die of covid. It's a very commonly expressed fear on MN and I know a few people who believe they will definitely die if they get it. One of the arguments against children going back to school is that teachers are worried that they will get covid and die (I am aware they are also worried about passing covid on to others and about increasing rates in the community - those are not the fears I'm talking about).

But the danger is still very tiny indeed.

Oh is it?

Can you please show me any research whatsoever that states that it is a very tiny danger if the NHS cannot treat anyone because it is overwhelmed with covid cases?

fullfact.org/online/covid-death-rate-under-60/

The stats in OP don’t tell the full story 🙄

That's not the fear I'm talking about. The fear I'm talking about, which many people have, is that they themselves, personally, will die of covid. It's a very commonly expressed fear on MN and I know a few people who believe they will definitely die if they get it. One of the arguments against children going back to school is that teachers are worried that they will get covid and die (I am aware they are also worried about passing covid on to others and about increasing rates in the community - those are not the fears I'm talking about).

You are just 'othering'.

A few people are irrationally afraid or unintelligent.

A few people still think that the danger of dying from covid is why we locked down.
A few people think that it is all lies and misinformation and done to control us and that flu is more dangerous.

Most people are not like that.

That includes people with severe health conditions who are very vulnerable to all illnesses

Perhaps we are one of those people OP? Or perhaps we have children that are.

@Haffiana

But the danger is still very tiny indeed.

Oh is it?

Can you please show me any research whatsoever that states that it is a very tiny danger if the NHS cannot treat anyone because it is overwhelmed with covid cases?

The NHS is stretched to breaking point with flu every year. This year flu has all but vanished. So, without the flu deaths, and COVID numbers reflecting a very bad flu year, why is the situation any different?

On top of that, the statistics for cases and deaths are flawed inside and out and it will take years to unpick the actual numbers of people who died, if at all.

@alpenguin

fullfact.org/online/covid-death-rate-under-60/

The stats in OP don’t tell the full story 🙄

Could you elaborate? All the statistics are correct.