In two weeks pupils can safely return to school..

[Regulus]

..can they fuck.

There maybe plenty of reasons why they have too but to lie that it's safe is deplorable.

It is perfectly safe for the kids to go back... any vulnerable teachers should have had their vaccine by then. You don't hear retail workers demanding the vaccine. They have been working with hundreds of members of the public since the beginning of all this.

@TheKeatingFive

so many posters are experts on teachers' pay, conditions and now pensions!

If you’re on a defined benefit pension scheme, you are getting an excellent deal compared to anyone on defined contribution (the vast majority of the private sector). That is common knowledge. 🤷‍♀️

This isn’t necessarily true, it depends how much you and even more importantly, your employer pays in. And what your defined benefits are, the level of risk you take with your private pension etc

I really am embarrassed about teachers talking about safe environments in the current climate. I think they need to get out more and find out about what it's like to be a police officer, nurse, care worker or shop worker right now or someone whose just been made redundant.

Between August and three days before Christmas, I worked with over a hundred students every day. Is that enough people Chatterbox?

I absolutely believe there is a sense of comradeship Nostaples.
I was surprised you rated this though, as you aren't displaying much solidarity with your more concerned colleagues.

@echt how does that show that teachers are at greater risk? I have tidied up your stats a little by just leaving the raw percentage positive number between Sept and Jan. As you see there is less than 1 percentage point of difference in the risk of all of these professions. Where is the clear evidence that teaching puts us at far greater risk than any other profession and we must therefore be vaccinated out of turn? I genuinely don't get it.

33Protective service occupations 4.79%
61Caring personal service occupations 4.56%
42Secretarial and related occupations 4.42%
23Teaching and other educational professionals 4.39%
12Other managers and proprietors 4.33%
62Leisure, travel and related personal service occupations 4.23%
92Elementary administration and service occupations 4.15%
53Skilled construction and building trades 4.03%
31Science, engineering and technology associate professionals 4.02%
41Administrative occupations 4.00%

@Watchingbehindmyhands but it's not ok to suggest you are representing the whole profession. If you are concerned for your job personally then I don't think that is in any way typical of teaching at the moment. And to suggest that teaching is a job particularly at risk at the moment is actually really disrespectful to people in hospitality or leisure or department stores or the arts.

I’d bet you’d like to keep that job though

You bet wrong. After the last 12 months, the contempt for our profession has never been clearer. There are other jobs.

keeping a roof over their head is somewhat important, no?

Nope. Mortgage free.

it depends how much you and even more importantly, your employer pays in

Well obviously if you pay in 1000s a month, you’ll build a good pot. That doesn’t mean you have the better deal, because you are the one paying it in.

If you find an employer putting in 1000s a month, please let me know. They’ll be inundated with applications.

For context, I’m ploughing in more than 600 a month of my paycheck into my pension and I don’t have a hope of accumulating as much as a teacher.

@Psychobobble that was my point.

The point that link made is that there is no statistical difference in risk between those 25 professions.

It really shows the ignorance and paranoia that people have linked to it thinking it shows the opposite

Nope. Mortgage free.

Well lucky you.

Spare a thought for the parents whose ability to keep a roof over their children’s heads has been seriously compromised by their lack of access to school.

'The tables in these datasets show that for the majority of comparisons, there is no difference in the risk of testing positive for COVID-19. However, groupings of some occupations are similar in their likelihoods of people testing positive.'

That's what that data tells us

And once again that is the risk of GETTING it, not suffering harm from it.

it's not ok to suggest you are representing the whole profession

I suggested no such thing. There are a lot of teachers concerned for their jobs - not necessarily this academic year but certainly as time moves on and we see the real impact of the pandemic. Why are others somehow more worthy of respect in that regard?

Yes the tables of risk of dying by profession were very different from the risk of catching it, and showed taxi and bus drivers disproportionately affected iirc. I wonder if anyone can link them.

'I was surprised you rated this though, as you aren't displaying much solidarity with your more concerned colleagues.'

For the reasons stated. They perhaps need to show more solidarity with their colleagues in health or their local supermarkets. More importantly, they need to remember their vocation which is to teach and protect children.

Since they are no more at risk than any other job, they have no legitimate claim to be at home when their colleagues in health and care and supermarkets have their backs.

@Chatterbox1987

It is perfectly safe for the kids to go back... any vulnerable teachers should have had their vaccine by then. You don't hear retail workers demanding the vaccine. They have been working with hundreds of members of the public since the beginning of all this.

Ah the old "what about retail". I am a TA. When I go in shops, from the beginning of the first lockdown, numbers are restricted, people (by far the vast majority) wear masks and socially distance. If I have spoken to a retail worker to ask where something is I have distanced and have spent under 30 seconds vaguely near them. At a till they are behind a massive plastic shield and I only speak to them for a few seconds. As a TA I spend all day in a poorly ventilated room. No masks, no social distancing. I sit next to children to help them or listen to them read. I clear away their lunches. I perform first aid. I comfort them. They hold my hand (and no matter how often we sanitise hands, children being children, pick their noses). I help them after toilet accidents. Children are often asymptomatic so are in school with the virus - hence the high rates in schools. They are mixing out of school too.

I repeat for the millionth time, retail and schools are not comparable.

'There are a lot of teachers concerned for their jobs'

I just don't agree that this is a concern for teachers in comparison with other jobs atm.

Spare a thought for the parents whose ability to keep a roof over their children’s heads has been seriously compromised by their lack of access to school

I am a single parent. I may not be worried about the roof over my head now but I know what it means to worry about your income and how it feels when that is threatened. I haven’t always taught either and have been made redundant twice - one in my early 30s and again in my late 30s which coincided with divorce. I have done hardship, believe me.

Like many parents with CV children, I am going to have to decide whether homeschooling is the way forward for us. Because schools are not safe for my child and no one at all seems concerned about that. Like many other people now - teacher or not - I have shit going on.

@nostaples

I really am embarrassed about teachers talking about safe environments in the current climate. I think they need to get out more and find out about what it's like to be a police officer, nurse, care worker or shop worker right now or someone whose just been made redundant.

I agree. I makes me absolutely 🙄 roll my eyes. The ones that are most vulnerable will have had their vaccines or had letters to shield. If they’ve not had letters then they aren’t as vulnerable as they feel they are.

care workers, supermarket staff, bank clerks, post office staff, shop workers, police service and the list goes on.... of all the other occupations that are in risky roles.

it’s like a broken record on repeat about the safety for teachers. At least the teachers are with the same class. Most supermarket works will serve 30 people each day.....

While I'm all for workers uniting, it is only staff in schools who are actually my colleagues, I would support any worker who wishes to take the appropriate action to ensure safer working conditions, but I will absolutely stand by my colleagues in schools who post saying they want to leave/can't face returning/fear for their safety.
You can say it isn't dangerous a million times. Schools are not as safe environments as they could be, and there has been months to make them so. I think the way to deal with this is to demand improvements, not to tell others not to complain as they're not likely to die and it's not that bad an illness anyway.

'Why are others somehow more worthy of respect in that regard?'

It's the opposite. There are people on this thread and elsewhere arguing that teachers are MORE worthy than others.

Statistically and morally there is no reason why teachers should get the vaccine before taxi drivers or remain working from home when care workers can't but that is what many on this thread and elsewhere are arguing.

I have done hardship, believe me.

You’d think that would make you a bit more empathetic to those who are in significant danger of losing their jobs/homes and becoming essentially unemployable if their children can’t access school.

But nooooo. You’re mortgage free, so alright Jack. You seem totally oblivious to the choices you have that aren’t open to others.

At least the teachers are with the same class. Most supermarket works will serve 30 people each day.....
That is actually mindblowing. Have you heard of secondary schools?
I see over 300 a week (and I'm part time!)

@Watchingbehindmyhands
'Because schools are not safe for my child and no one at all seems concerned about that.'

It's not true that people aren't concerned. CEV should have been vaccinated. Vulnerable next.

Jo Whiley spoke very movingly about her sister recently and nobody would disagree with what she was saying.

The truth is that there had to be an order to the vaccines. I can't stand this government or its response to the pandemic but I think they've got the vaccine roll out right more or less. On ethical grounds.

I find the desire for teachers to queue jump morally repugnant exactly because of the needs of clinically vulnerable people.

@mumsneedwine

I don't give a shiny shit about how I sound. I won't be going back under these conditions as it's not safe for anyone. Section 44 handed in 10 minutes ago. Lockdown 4 here we come. And if you really believe there will be no more isolations then you are naive. Poor year 11 & 13 are going to be totally stuffed if they have to isolate again.

How are you defining 'safe'?

None of us are naive enough to think there will no more isolations, in fact I fully expect it but as a reaction to an actual case not the threat that there might be one at some point.