Page 13 | If they open up schools all at once, I'm done with every other precaution

NameChangeBingo · 22/02/2021 08:40

Cases have been rising steadily in my region. We have negative wiggle room.

BestOption · 22/02/2021 08:42

@Pastanred

Whilst group 6 may not be fully vaccinated, 90% deaths are in the groups 1-4

We are not going for zero deaths we are jus managing nhs

The top 4 groups are not 90% of deaths.

The reason some people in other groups are not dying is because the ICU staff are doing an amazing job. People can be in hospital for weeks. Staff are already in their knees & then some. But you want to fill up hospitals further & for longer. That's not managing the NHS, it's destroying the staff, risking not having ICU beds & oxygen and delaying the restart of other services.

Attictroll · 22/02/2021 08:42

Not only this

“ This isn’t how it works. We can afford a certain level of transmission for hospitals not to be overwhelmed. We cannot afford a greater level of transmission. Opening schools will produce a certain level of transmission, which is projected not to overwhelm hospitals. That doesn’t mean we can go off and do other stuff which will raise transmission further.*

but
It’s thinking like OP which will cause another lockdown. I do think teachers need more protection in schools and govt haven’t sorted but education has to be a priority.

Seeing opinions like schools are open let’s socialise is mind boggling- when has education and children been the equivalent of catching up with a friend or a haircut ffs. education and children have to come first otherwise what type of society are we 😢

Abraxan · 22/02/2021 08:42

@MarshaBradyo

I also think that in MN we forget that for a majority of the population schools aren't as important to them as they don't have school aged children.

Obviously this is incorrect as schools are the stated priority by those outside mn. Hence opening first.

I meant with the general public rather than the government.

I think it's why in Mumsnet so many threads are about school but on things like YouGov, which I look at most days, the school based questions often have a very different look when you see the responses.

killickthere · 22/02/2021 08:44

@Attictroll

Not only this

“ This isn’t how it works. We can afford a certain level of transmission for hospitals not to be overwhelmed. We cannot afford a greater level of transmission. Opening schools will produce a certain level of transmission, which is projected not to overwhelm hospitals. That doesn’t mean we can go off and do other stuff which will raise transmission further.*

but
It’s thinking like OP which will cause another lockdown. I do think teachers need more protection in schools and govt haven’t sorted but education has to be a priority.

Seeing opinions like schools are open let’s socialise is mind boggling- when has education and children been the equivalent of catching up with a friend or a haircut ffs. education and children have to come first otherwise what type of society are we 😢

this is also my view.

MarshaBradyo · 22/02/2021 08:45

Abraxan MPs represent constituents ie the people and even Shadow Secretary said it is right to go first with schools.

Only dissent I’ve heard this morning is from Unions

OddBoots · 22/02/2021 08:46

If I have a big fry up and a maple and pecan slice for breakfast then why shouldn't I snack all day and have a big lunch and dinner too, every day, if one thing is okay then it's fine to do it all.

LilMidge01 · 22/02/2021 08:47

@BettyBoomerang

All the parents are the same people whose kids are mixing in school anyway, so why not chat at the gates? No logic in it at all. Does it somehow spread more in the open air than from kids sitting elbow to elbow for hours?! I'm not prepare to be gaslit anymore, frankly. And also, if Covid is coming into my home then it may as well be through having fun and making our own decisions, rather than sitting around with my fingers crossed and leaving it up to fate and bloody Boris.

Wow. I do despair when someone cries 'gaslighting' when noone is doing that..seems like the term will become useless and devalued like 'anxiety' when people use it for everything and anything.

however, back to your point. That's not really how science works I'm afraid. Transmission depends on a range of factors including how close to were to a particular person when they were heavily shedding, and they may be doing so on a different day from another member of their hosuehold....I mean its actually logical to understand how even further mixing on top of school mixing will increase transmission...but I think you just don't want to hear it (or you actually don't understand in which case you really do need to get your kids back in school and not learning from you!..But that doesn't sound like the case here)

Tbh, I have no children, I am low-risk as I am only 30 with no underlying conditions but I have put my life on hold with everyone else for the greater good of all, particularly the elderly and vulnerable. I will now continue putting my life on hold but this time more so that your children can go to school and be educated...and soon hopefully it will be my turn. Why are you being so selfish? People like me are choosing to still abide to keep cases low in order to allow for things like schools to open, as so many parents have been clamouring for. Try adn see it form that perspective...whole businesses and lives are being put on hold so that the schools can open first...and you're gonna throw it back in all our faces.

NotQuiteHere · 22/02/2021 08:49

Betty, I am with you. Opening schools now is an idiotic decision and will likely put all of us an another lockdown closer to summer. They said "data, not dates" and still went for the latter. Waiting till after Easter would be much more sensible.

People who say "The children need to be in school" are like those demanding that the plaster cast must be taken off their leg before the doctors said it should be done, because they had enough.

People who say "The vulnerable have been vaccinated" probably do not know about long Covid when people, including many thousands of children right now, suffer from the symptoms for months. Most of them did not need the hospital treatment, they are not part of the statistics about NHS being overwhelmed, so they are easily forgotten. But it can happen to anyone and to anyone's child.

The government did nothing to protect our children in schools before, and they want to put them at risk again.

Lampzade · 22/02/2021 08:50

@BettyBoomerang

If the 'leak' is true and they are stupid enough to open up all schools to all kids at the same time (thus leading to uncontrolled transmission of variants and increased risk of vaccine escape, further lockdowns and a redo of the vaccination programme) then I'm done with any kind of compliance.

I'm not staying at home like a fucking stupid sitting duck, waiting for my kids to come home with Covid anymore. The kids can see their friends, have sleepovers and we'll go out and about and visit friends and relatives and do the maximum we can.

You can pile in and call me selfish or whatever - I genuinely don't care anymore. I'm not putting my life on hold just for the government to fuck the recovery up again. I'm the most compliant of pretty much everyone I know but this is it for me, and many others I suspect (most of whom are already doing way more than me). If it's safe for my kids to go to school, then everything is safe.

Totally agree Op I caught COVID in December despite not leaving my home for months. I have no doubt that my teenage children brought it into the home. I want my kids back in school, but I was hoping that there would be a phased return. Allowing all schools back at once seems crazy imho and I can understand why some are saying that they may as well go about their business

MarshaBradyo · 22/02/2021 08:51

The latter are not dates but the first has been met based on four tests

Todayissunny · 22/02/2021 08:51

Im not in the UK. And I am aware that there are different challenges there.

I am a teacher. Teach English to primary kids as a FL.
We had short school closures last spring (longer for kids over 16 and adult ed). Since then every adult that enters school grounds has to wear a mask at all times. Including while teaching. Kids over 12 also have to wear masks at all times in the school building. Primary kids from age of 9/10 have had to wear masks at all times since new variants have been discovered here.
We have co2 monitors in classrooms letting us know when we should open windows.
None of this has affected teaching or learning.

We have only had isolated cases in all the schools I deal with and know of. We haven't seen it being passed between kids at school.
I strongly believe that masks do work.

Kids MUST get back to school.

LilMidge01 · 22/02/2021 08:52

@BettyBoomerang

Transmission from/to children is said to be lower, unless you don’t believe that why can’t see why you mixing with their parents is higher risk?

God no, I absolutely don’t believe that.

Ah right of course, sorry! Your 'belief' clearly is more important than any scientific evidence.

Simple fix. Just don't believe it.

Magnificentmug12 · 22/02/2021 08:53

What a tantrum! You teach children?

The kids going back will cause numbers to rise, obviously, but that’s why everything else is being held back, so the kids can get to school- are they not worth it?

I don’t think you should be a teacher.

SoupDragon · 22/02/2021 08:53

@minipie

If it's safe for my kids to go to school, then everything is safe.

This isn’t how it works. We can afford a certain level of transmission for hospitals not to be overwhelmed. We cannot afford a greater level of transmission. Opening schools will produce a certain level of transmission, which is projected not to overwhelm hospitals. That doesn’t mean we can go off and do other stuff which will raise transmission further.

But I think you know that.

This!

It isn't about situations being "safe" it is a numbers game. The same result could be achieved by only allowing people to mix with others whose surname begins with the same letter for example.

Quit4me · 22/02/2021 08:53

OP don’t be a dick.
Of course schools are not safe. But closing them does the greatest harm to the largest number of people, and has the longest harmful effect so they are a priority and this has been weighed up carefully with transmission risk.
You meeting up with mums for a coffee, and your kids having sleepovers I’m afraid comes way down the list. If everyone met who they wanted for coffee and had whatever family and friends over their house transmission would be way way higher than just schools going back.
If schools close back down again, you will have helped.

Scrunchy95 · 22/02/2021 08:54

Ffs, we are all sick to death of this, but being fed up doesn't make COVID go away. Our children have had a year of poor if any education. They are a priority and getting them back to school while the rest of us follow the restrictions is absolutely essential. Grow up!

LilMidge01 · 22/02/2021 08:55

@NotQuiteHere

Betty, I am with you. Opening schools now is an idiotic decision and will likely put all of us an another lockdown closer to summer. They said "data, not dates" and still went for the latter. Waiting till after Easter would be much more sensible.

People who say "The children need to be in school" are like those demanding that the plaster cast must be taken off their leg before the doctors said it should be done, because they had enough.

People who say "The vulnerable have been vaccinated" probably do not know about long Covid when people, including many thousands of children right now, suffer from the symptoms for months. Most of them did not need the hospital treatment, they are not part of the statistics about NHS being overwhelmed, so they are easily forgotten. But it can happen to anyone and to anyone's child.

The government did nothing to protect our children in schools before, and they want to put them at risk again.

But that's not what Betty's saying. That's a different debate.

Betty is saying 'ok, then I'm going to do even more dangerous things if you let me do one dangerous thing....' as someone else made the comparison on here 'If one doughnut is not too bad for my health, then I'll have 50 doughnuts...'

Nellodee · 22/02/2021 08:55

Like it or not, I think we're going to see a rise in out of school meet ups. I think a lot of people will start the week before school goes back - "Well, our kids are going to be sat next to each other all next week, anyway. Why don't we let them have a sleepover for Megan's 16th at the weekend?"

For the sake of my GCSE students - PLEASE don't do this.

NotQuiteHere · 22/02/2021 09:00

LilMidge01

I think Betty is being provocative on purpose, and her main point is that opening up so soon all at once is stupid, which I agree with. The rest is noise.

PinkTonic · 22/02/2021 09:01

@yellowsubmarines

People keep talking about children going back to school but I am an adult on an adult course and every time the children go back we have to go back too. So if it's safe for me to sit unmasked in a room with 35 other adults from 9am until 5pm and intermix with other people in the college during break times and in the toilets then I feel like it's safe for me to go anywhere and do anything. If I have to go back to school in March then I will no longer follow any other covid related rules.

Firstly as an adult you don’t have to back so if you aren’t comfortable you can make that choice

Secondly if you all just mix with each other, your own families and other essential contact, there is some limit to the potential spread. If you all go mixing freely as well, clearly that’s what sets up the conditions for mass community spread. But of course you know that because you clearly have a high enough IQ to manage social media and read and write, and the concept is extremely simple to understand so shouldn’t be beyond your comprehension.

PickAChew · 22/02/2021 09:03

Do you tolerate "everyone's doing it so why can't I" from your own kids, when they misbehave?

SilverGlitterBaubles · 22/02/2021 09:04

@Nellodee

Like it or not, I think we're going to see a rise in out of school meet ups. I think a lot of people will start the week before school goes back - "Well, our kids are going to be sat next to each other all next week, anyway. Why don't we let them have a sleepover for Megan's 16th at the weekend?"

For the sake of my GCSE students - PLEASE don't do this.

Agreed. All known cases at DCs school related to out of school mixing like parties abs sleepovers including mixing with kids from other schools. As a result of which my DC missed 4 weeks of in school education. If parents so desperately want their kids back then it's down to us all to be sensible.

MashNgravy · 22/02/2021 09:04

Don't be a dick OP

Abraxan · 22/02/2021 09:06

@MarshaBradyo

Abraxan MPs represent constituents ie the people and even Shadow Secretary said it is right to go first with schools.

Only dissent I’ve heard this morning is from Unions

And I have absolutely no issue with schools opening first.

And from everything I've read the unions also want schools open, but - like from the start - they believe it should be done so with caution and precautions. And unions are not, regardless of what Twitter and the media want to portray, the only groups concerned about a 'big bang' open schools en mass without doing anything to support it.

I do have an issue with our government claiming to have education as their priority but failing to invest anything into them to help them get through covid. They didn't even help finance extra paper towels and sanitisers! They claimed to send lap tops out but there were so many restrictions and delays. They've not followed any of the sage and who suggestions - just opened up fully to all and stood back. It didn't work in the autumn term for a vast number of schools. They haven't looked at what other countries have done, what's worked and what's haven't.

The government simply do not really have education and schools as its priority and haven't done for decades, yes they want to open them - it appeases parents and it appeases the economy as it means parents can get back to work. They care so little that gcse and a level students have been left hanging with uncertainty for weeks. The list goes on and in showing how they really don't have education as their true priority.

It doesn't really affect me too much. I will return vaccinated. I've also now had covid and will continue to live with the longer term effects of it whether at home or at school. When I return my work load will reduce massively. And I can return to working at normal hours rather than the skewed day I have due to my current role. I'm looking forward to having some of my weekends back, I'm looking forward to adult conversation. I'm looking forward to teaching children face to face. I'm looking forward to not spending hours starting at 3 screens monitoring everything going on, setting tasks, answering parent queries, sorting tech issues, etc. My dd isn't school age so I'm not affected in that way either. It's unlikely she'll get university face to face lectures this academic year regardless of what's said tonight,

But, just because it doesn't really affect me personally too much, it doesn't mean that I don't care. I will stand up and support other school staff and parents who have not been treated well throughout this pandemic by our very own government and the media who relay their 'leaks.'