If they open up schools all at once, I'm done with every other precaution

[BettyBoomerang]

If the 'leak' is true and they are stupid enough to open up all schools to all kids at the same time (thus leading to uncontrolled transmission of variants and increased risk of vaccine escape, further lockdowns and a redo of the vaccination programme) then I'm done with any kind of compliance.

I'm not staying at home like a fucking stupid sitting duck, waiting for my kids to come home with Covid anymore. The kids can see their friends, have sleepovers and we'll go out and about and visit friends and relatives and do the maximum we can.

You can pile in and call me selfish or whatever - I genuinely don't care anymore. I'm not putting my life on hold just for the government to fuck the recovery up again. I'm the most compliant of pretty much everyone I know but this is it for me, and many others I suspect (most of whom are already doing way more than me). If it's safe for my kids to go to school, then everything is safe.

@Puddymuddle

Schools were always going to be the first thing to open. It’s now announced they’re opening, meaning it’s finally the start of lockdown being lifted and everyone is losing their shit Do you all want to be locked up forever? Hospitals are not overwhelmed and are unlikely now to be with the most vulnerable vaccinated so why on earth shouldn’t we start to open up?? Boris is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. The more people do what the OP is planning on doing, the longer it will be before pubs and cafes and everything else will open, so well done OP.

Exactly losing their shit indeed. They were always going to be prioritised.

All the vulnerable are vaccinated.

I keep reading this but I don't know why, and it's not true.
Or do we know only class priority groups 1-4 as vulnerable, and groups 5-9 do longer matter? Why does that definition suddenly meet the rhetoric whereas previously it was groups 1-9?

The clinically vulnerable are not yet vaccinated.
The government only moved into this group a week ago, and many areas haven't even started it.

I'm group 6 and will have my first vaccine on Wednesday.
I will then be returning to school 11 days later- so not even finished the 3 weeks needed for it to kick in.

There are many people of working age, teachers and school staff and parents in this large group who are not yet vaccinated.

There are also a lot of over 50s school staff, so in the priority groups therefore still vulnerable to,covid, who are not yet vaccinated.

Why did these groups count as vulnerable for the past yet but all of a sudden they're not important to so many people now that doesn't fit the plans??

It's been interesting to see how people's perceptions of those who are more vulnerable have changed over the past 12 months.

And yes, fwiw even those in group 6 can end up in hospital and ill. I did.

Schools were always going to be the first thing to open. It’s now announced they’re opening, meaning it’s finally the start of lockdown being lifted and everyone is losing their shit Do you all want to be locked up forever? Hospitals are not overwhelmed and are unlikely now to be with the most vulnerable vaccinated so why on earth shouldn’t we start to open up??

This.

@Quornflakegirl

Dh is in critical, non nhs worker, he has worked every day since last March in his vital role. No measures were put in place for him to keep safe, he deals with members of the public in difficult face to face situations everyday. He could have brought the virus home to us. Teachers on here complaining about being unsafe when thousands of other workers have been in exactly the same situation. Our dc need to continue their education, it's gone on too long now. I fully support a full return to school and I say that as a teacher myself.

Why have no precautions been made in his line of work? Have he and his colleagues complained about this not happening? I'd be more than happy to support such employees in trying to get their employers to follow the rules.

In almost every other workplace there is little reason to not have masks and screens as routine, and in an awful lot social distancing should be possible.

It's not a race to the bottom. Everyone should be supporting one another in this - it's not fair that employers aren't helping to,keep their workers safe.

Some schools have been at 75% capacity during lockdown anyway as per some posters - infection rates have still come down These are primaries and the spread in these schools is the reason that age group has higher rates than other age groups (with the exception of 18-24 I think). Primary kids are spreading it in school.

@Pastanred

Whils group 6 may have some vulnerabilities the fact that 90% deaths ae groups 1-4 proves that people in group 6 are fa too paranoid about their actual risk

You may be more vulnerable to catching it but not dying or the figures would be massively different as group 6 is big

So, so long as we don't die that's okay then?

What about being ill enough to need hospital treatment, needing several weeks off work and months later still not being fully well? Because I'll tell you being rushed to a and e with the very real risk of a stroke or heart attack, whilst alone having said a hasty bye to dh as I left, wasn't much fun.

I assume stuff like that is perfectly fine then, so long as we don't die. No worries - you won't die, go to work in an environment chock full of over people within 2m of you and hold your breathe p maybe that way you'll be okay.

I’m not sure I even understand the OP.

So because she doesn’t think schools are ‘safe’ she’s going to go out of her way to ensure things are less ‘safe’?

Bit of a logic fail.

Schools were always going to be the first thing to open. It’s now announced they’re opening, meaning it’s finally the start of lockdown being lifted and everyone is losing their shit Do you all want to be locked up forever? Hospitals are not overwhelmed and are unlikely now to be with the most vulnerable vaccinated so why on earth shouldn’t we start to open up??

Not all vulnerable people have been vaccinated. Far from it. Think of all those teachers in their 40-50s for example. Schools may be safe for children, but as soon as children and their carers are mixing on a wider basis then you end up with more opportunities for the virus to spread.

And most people vaccinated have only had their first dose 🤷🏻‍♀️

Don’t believe the hype in terms of vaccinations. Yes we’ve made great progress but we aren’t there yet and there are new variants popping up.

I assume stuff like that is perfectly fine then, so long as we don't die. No worries - you won't die

Well society does have to function. We can’t eliminate all risk for everyone. Every time you get in your car you risk death or serious accident.

Some people just love lockdowns!

And actually I do think we need to start returning to school BUT after a year I cannot understand why, If they are so certain they need to prior]tide education, the government have done absolutely nothing to help make classrooms safer. They've not spent a single penny, or so it seems, on education and school covid safety.

They could have followed any of the vast lists of suggestions to prioritise schools and have children in more safely - but no, schools are so important to them they've done nothing - just sent them all back in one go and then sit and wonder why covid cases ended up so high and why so many children ended up missing 2 weeks of school at a time, many having a number of isolation periods one after another.

I also think that in MN we forget that for a majority of the population schools aren't as important to them as they don't have school aged children.

It's a bit like eating a biscuit, thinking that you have blown the diet and therefore it's ok to eat a whole cake. Humans are instinctively not great at evaluating risks and there is a tendency to slip into black and white thinking (it's either safe or not safe). And I totally get the anger at the way the government and the feeling of being a mug for being careful when others aren't, but we still need to keep our exposure, and our risk of passing covid on, to the minimum we can for a bit longer.

This is such horseshit.

We’ll be in lockdown 4 by the end of Summer.

This is like Groundhog Day. When will they learn?

They could have followed any of the vast lists of suggestions to prioritise schools and have children in more safely - but no, schools are so important to them they've done nothing - just sent them all back in one go and then sit and wonder why covid cases ended up so high and why so many children ended up missing 2 weeks of school at a time, many having a number of isolation periods one after another

^this a million times over

If I can go back mixing with hundreds of students a day without masks on and no possibility of social distancing then I really really want to see my mum. I haven't seen her in person since October and I miss her now.

I'd also like my child to be able to mix with his nan as he hasn't seen her since he turned one in August

Transmission from/to children is said to be lower, unless you don’t believe that why can’t see why you mixing with their parents is higher risk?

God no, I absolutely don’t believe that.

I don't know about the OP, but I'm struggling! I'm struggling as a teacher (who desperately wants to be back in the classroom as it was last February), as the DIL of a CV man who is ridiculously far down the priority lists (who is worried about passing on covid as there are not enough safety measures in classrooms), as a toddler's mum (who can't do all the normal activities or socialise her child) and as a person (who can't do any of the things that normally keep her on an even keel and whose antidepressant dosage has tripled in the last year). Not to mention as a wife who is constantly worried that her patient, kind and understanding husband is going to get fed up of all the crap that being around me throws into the mix.

I take my hat off to everyone who isn't struggling. I really do. I wish I wasn't. But I think an assumption that pretty much everyone is struggling to some degree is fair, so I think MrsHamlet is empathising rather than projecting.

This isn’t how it works. We can afford a certain level of transmission for hospitals not to be overwhelmed. We cannot afford a greater level of transmission. Opening schools will produce a certain level of transmission, which is projected not to overwhelm hospitals. That doesn’t mean we can go off and do other stuff which will raise transmission further

THIS ^

I also think that in MN we forget that for a majority of the population schools aren't as important to them as they don't have school aged children.

Schools being open benefits all of society.

That’s how the government sees it too.

They could have followed any of the vast lists of suggestions to prioritise schools and have children in more safely

While there are clearly some things they could have done, the recent threads on this demonstrate why many of the suggestions aren’t that workable in practice. Masks and ventilation are the things they could have focused on, yes.

I did smile this morning seeing the BBC report that as well as schools reopening I’ll be allowed to ‘have a chat outside with one other person’. There are hundreds of us at the school gate. Just at the schools I pick up my kids from. Millions overall of course. There’s nowhere to stand, it’s literally in the street now that we are not even allowed in the playground. The public has complained about the crowds of kids and parents, like we have other options. One other person my arse! Even if I didn’t plan to ignore the rules of schools fully reopen, I’ll be ignoring them by default twice a day from day 1.

I really don't get it, OP. Many parents want school open no matter what. Some of us want it to be safe opening.
I's not ideal if the school open for all at once without any measures for me, but it doesn't make me feel like I should abandon any precautions and restrictions. It makes more sense to keep the infection within home, not into the community, so the school can stay open longer.

I also think that in MN we forget that for a majority of the population schools aren't as important to them as they don't have school aged children.

Obviously this is incorrect as schools are the stated priority by those outside mn. Hence opening first.

As PP have said it’s not about being safe or unsafe pretty much everything except staying at home isolating away from everyone and everything carries a risk and increases the r number
We are now at a point where case levels/community spread is such that the R number is under 1 sufficiently enough that there is room to add to it without it going above 1 and causing exponential spread.

Schools have always been the priority and this is basically saying there is enough room now to open up schools for all on the 8th March. It’s clear actually that given not much else is being allowed for another 3 weeks beyond that and even then just outside and nothing else until mid April how much this is prioritised and truthfully how much they are aware of the impact that it will have on spread and the R number.

They know it is a vector of transmission but they are also aware of the huge impact schools not being open has. So they are being opened first and given I think time to ensure that doesn’t happen

The wrong attitude of this means schools are safe and I can do what I want is exactly what will cause it to start to push beyond the limits because whether you agree with schools going back or not it is painfully clear from the roadmap it takes up the only bit of wiggle room with the r number we have

My sister in law has antibodies and didn’t even know she had covid. Her husband who she lives with has no antibodies so probably hasn’t had it. The virus doesn’t necessarily spread even when in constant close proximity to someone for lengthy periods.
Just because a class of 30 children are in a classroom together, it doesn’t automatically mean that the virus is going to spread through them and to every adult in all their households. If the adults of the children from one class take your attitude and start mixing themselves, the chance of the virus spreading is very much increased.
Yes of course there will be transmission once schools re open - it’s a risk that needs taking for the sake of the children. They’re the priority right now. But not allowing other measures to be relaxed is how the risk can be minimised. Jesus - we’ve come this far - why give up now? I wouldn’t describe sticking to the rules as being a boring person. That reminds me of teenage peer pressure.

People keep talking about children going back to school but I am an adult on an adult course and every time the children go back we have to go back too. So if it's safe for me to sit unmasked in a room with 35 other adults from 9am until 5pm and intermix with other people in the college during break times and in the toilets then I feel like it's safe for me to go anywhere and do anything. If I have to go back to school in March then I will no longer follow any other covid related rules.