How can schools successfully reopen? What the UK can learn from other countries

[herecomesthsun]

Very interesting thread, in the Telegraph, looking at what other countires are doing to make schools safe, here.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education-and-careers/2021/02/14/can-schools-successfully-reopen-uk-can-learn-countries/

The implication is that the UK can adopt some of these measures for schools reopening to be more successful.

For example, in France, some measures discussed that are not currently in use in the UK include:

"-Students must adhere to the one-metre social distancing measures in their classrooms and two metres when in the canteen with pupils from other classes

-Wearing a face mask is mandatory for adults and pupils from the first grade

• Facilities must be cleaned and aired for at least 10 minutes every three hours

When looking at how other advanced nations have navigated school closures, France has one of the lowest closed school rates. Children and teachers in French schools are also no longer allowed to wear fabric face masks, but must instead wear “category 1” surgical masks which offer a higher level of protection."

and so on.

I think it's very encouraging that this is at least being discussed, and in one of the more right wing papers. Let's hope there are government plans to put more measures in place.

The thing is that one virus is not the only thing that should be considered as the basis for policy.

@thefallthroughtheair

The thing is that one virus is not the only thing that should be considered as the basis for policy.

Nor should ignoring it.

Putting measures in place in schools, slows the spread, not only in the school but in the community.

If we (the royal we) keep teachers and school staff healthy and in schools then schools can stay open, education continues.

Pupils, teachers, support staff, and parents mental health is improved for those that are being affected by schools being closed or continually being in and out of school.

Businesses stay open, parents can go to work. etc. etc.

its not that hard to understand yet posters don't seem to be able to do the joined up thinking and are happy to present the BS about teachers and unions etc.

Why are other teachers so afraid of Covid ? I'm a TA to young children and I just don't have this phobia. Obviously I'd rather not catch it,

Before October I was concerned about catching it as immCV. The media and my consultants had told me many times that I was vulnerable if I caught it and could end up rather ill.

As if happens I did catch it during the autumn term and I was ill enough to be sent to hospital urgently. I needed several weeks off work and I'm still not right now 4 months later. I'll be taking medication for life.

Whilst I know I'm cv it's also important to note that it isn't a condition that I would be expected to doe from and it isn't something which should reduce my life expectancy.

I'm currently a little concerned that I don't catch it again. My consultant can't say that I wouldn't be able to and advises me to remain being very careful. Due to new health complications since covid it would be a very real risk to me if I had to deal with it again.

I should point out too that it was actually really quite scary - being whisked up to a and e and being admitted, whilst on my own and dh and teen Dd having to say goodbye from the door, wasn't something I'd want to go through again. Just that part, without adding in the covid issues and the post viral issues, was hard enough tbh.

I get my vaccine next week so I'm becoming less concerned for when I return.

Sadly not every teacher and TA will just get a mild dose if they catch it.

Oh, it's never been an excuse not to work.

Due to being cv and also my specific role I've wfh during the two big lockdowns. This doesn't mean I didn't work - i have done longer hours than ever before, plus worked every weekend and throughout 3 weeks of holidays last academic year, as well as some time during the other holidays.

Despite being vulnerable I worked full time in school in the autumn term, working across the school and working with no protection, no masks and no SD with over 250 children each week.

I even worked from my hospital bed - if nothing else, it was a distraction when alone in an isolation room. I also wfh during my sickness - 7 weeks I couldn't go into work but I worked long hours throughout this, often from my bed as I couldn't breathe fully enough to make it downstairs.

Comments like yours really don't help.

I don't know of a single teacher or Ta who have refused to work.

My school have made us wear masks with the KW kids since xmas. It's incredibly hard work to breath all day as an adult. I think it looks threatening and I hate it. I would not want little kids wearing them. I see it on my Facebook as I have friends in Asian counties ( sorry to say Asian, I'm not sure specifically where they are ) and lots of pictures with their young children with masks on.

You don't realise how much you lipread until you wear masks all day, and I'm saying that as someone who's not brilliant at maintaining eye contact, as I'm always nosing !

People learn to articulate more with a mask, and to speak up. It's a pain, I would love to go back to teaching without a mask, but it's better than not teaching face to face.

When I returned after being ill I wore a mask all day every day at school, except when I was stood at the front teaching phonics when I could remain socially distanced.

Not a single child - I teach infants aged 4-7y - was even vaguely bothered by me wearing a mask. No parents have been bothered by it either.

From speaking to the rest of my colleagues who are all in full time right now many are wearing masks all the time, again with the taking them off if teaching distanced from the front, especially for phonics sessions.

It doesn't bother me when wearing them. It's been fine and you quickly get used to it, in my experience,

France has one of the lowest closed school rates.

This isn't necessarily a good thing.

There's been some discussion about the criteria France is using to send home pupils on here.

Its pretty much is summed up as they don't send contacts home. Which is why they have lower numbers. Not that they have lower case rates in schools.

@ChloeDecker

Why are other teachers so afraid of Covid ? I'm a TA to young children and I just don't have this phobia. Obviously I'd rather not catch it,

I’m afraid of the thought of having to have repeated self isolation periods again, at no notice. Having some in class, some at home and having to teach both at the same time. In my family, it is whether it is having to self isolate from my DD in Primary or my DH and me in Secondary. It’s stressful, restricting and doesn’t need to happen so frequently if some measures could be at least considered.

I’ve already had Covid by the way, from school, so...

No one is gagging to catch it are they?

I wouldn't describe caution as a phobia even young people risk long Covid.

No one is gagging to catch it are they?

I wouldn't describe caution as a phobia even young people risk long Covid.

Just want to point out that the top of my post is a quote from someone else. I didn’t say that! I agree with you.

@thefallthroughtheair

We could just all calm down and see sense, understand that the main comorbidities for Covid are age and frailty and that now we have vaccinated those at risk (real risk, not made up 'I'm going to die because your mask less child came near me' risk) schools should go back as normal. Those who don't want that can choose to change their lives to fit with their own narrative but shouldn't impose their unfounded dramatic fears on the most vulnerable and voiceles in society. In other words, adults need to act like adults, not like terrified toddlers, and put children's needs first.

Children need bubbles not to burst children need to be at school as much as possible with some precautions

Children are also aware of the pandemic - j don't see why wearing a mask during this time in their lives is so traumatic - they learn that sometimes there are diseases and precautions are needed to keep themselves and others a bit safer

Or is it better to have children thinking "I'm not wearing a face nappy boo fuck the world"

And yes excluding children who can't wear them for medical reasons - all the more reasons you'd want to if you could.

Children don't need to go to school and pretend everything is fine and they don't need to be careful when they do. Is that really great either?

I mean no one WANTS this to be happening but it is.

@ChloeDecker

No one is gagging to catch it are they?

I wouldn't describe caution as a phobia even young people risk long Covid.

Just want to point out that the top of my post is a quote from someone else. I didn’t say that! I agree with you.

Sorry yes I know! I was agreeing with your response

I still don’t get why people don’t understand that SD doesn’t work in school because there simply isn’t enough room. In our school at the start of this mess we tried to put the desks out at 2m apart. We could fit 12 desks in a classroom. So with 1m might be able to get say 22 ish. What happens to the other 10 kids that there isn’t room for?? Even on a rota eg more classrooms available if y7 are in and y8 are at home and you split y7 class across two classrooms as you’ve gained more classrooms as other year groups are at home who is teaching the other class??? So I’m in classroom a teaching that half of the kids, who is teaching in classroom b teaching the other half. You could stream my lesson into the computer but who is actually supervising the children? On the same note if you brought half of y7 in one week this only have the kids in the class and streamed at home to the other half who is to say those at home can a) access a computer and internet at the time their lesson is and b) actually keep with the work so the teacher can move on the next week. Other option is you do a rota and teach the same thing to each halves. But then will take forever and haven’t got the time as will be twice as long. You could ask staff to upload lessons but then they are planning and teaching twice as much which they simply don’t have the time to do.

It’s an absolute logistical nightmare

We are in France and our kids are in school. They are still allowed to wear fabric masks at the moment. Neither of my kids mind wearing them but I notice a lot of kids sucking them or fiddling with them.

Even when we had lockdown#2 in November the schools stayed open.

Mind you, the French parliament is debating banning homeschool because of the fear it allows people to radicalise their kids so it may be more politically motivated than it seems.

At the start of the pandemic we were living in Austria.
There, every kid takes a rapid test in the morning at school. There is a legal limit of 25 on classes even without Covid so it is easier to socially distance.

My best friend is a TA in a school and he caught Covid there. Fit man under 30 with no underlying conditions and he ended up in hospital on oxygen. I don't think it is fair to dismiss the concerns of teaching staff for their own health.

HauntedPencil

@Whatelsecouldibecalled

It is a logistical nightmare, but other countries have done it, have avoided any more lockdowns and the benefit in terms of life, health and economically more than outweighs the cost of making it happen.

In the US state where my friend lives they've hired more staff, kids in on rotas, social distanced (I do think they have slightly lower class sizes to start, but still), masks. The state also provided a laptop for every child to take home and they live stream the classroom lessons, presumably there was money involved in the IT setup and expertise to make this happen.

So it basically needs money. Yes, without extra investment schools couldn't do it.

My daughter's primary had all years back in June/July (full time) with extra TAs. They split classes in half (max 15 per class), used all available space as classrooms, and did more outdoor learning but they could do it again if they had the cash. They had people lining up to take the TA roles they had in June/July.

The government doesn't want to spend the money.

@sayhellocaterpillar
The older you are, the more likely you are to feel scared. If you are in your late forties you will be vaccinated late in the year but are still at a lot more risk than someone in their thirties. How old are you? Experience also counts. So I know of three people in their late forties who have died because of Covid. I don’t know or care if they had underlying health conditions as they were fit, worked and had young children. I’m also increasingly concerned about long Covid a I am seeing more and more people really struggling despite having relatively mild cases initially. It isn’t very pleasant. Teaching increases the risk of this whilst those wfh are much more in control of their own destiny. That’s why I think teachers should be a priority for vaccinations.

Bustopher, in your 40s you are 8 times more likely to die of another cause than Covid.

And ME CFS and other post viral syndromes has always been an issue, except people thought they were hypochondriacs or making it up. Bizarrely Long Covid is most likely to impact those in their 30s.

Chance of dying (non covid)
www.bandolier.org.uk/booth/Risk/dyingage.html

And this says a 45 year old many with previous heart attach still less than 1 in 10000 chance of dying. (if he catches it)
www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/how-to-find-out-your-risk-when-it-comes-to-coronavirus

How many times?!
I'm not afraid of dying.
I'm concerned I might get ill. If I get ill, I'm off work. My students don't have a qualified experienced teacher for x weeks.
Maybe I make some of them ill. Maybe some of their families get ill.
Maybe my year 11 have to isolate again. Maybe that disrupts their exam prep.
Maybe a whole lot of this can be avoided.

But you can get ill with things other than Covid.

Anyway, my response was to Bustopher who is