How can schools successfully reopen? What the UK can learn from other countries

[herecomesthsun]

Very interesting thread, in the Telegraph, looking at what other countires are doing to make schools safe, here.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education-and-careers/2021/02/14/can-schools-successfully-reopen-uk-can-learn-countries/

The implication is that the UK can adopt some of these measures for schools reopening to be more successful.

For example, in France, some measures discussed that are not currently in use in the UK include:

"-Students must adhere to the one-metre social distancing measures in their classrooms and two metres when in the canteen with pupils from other classes

-Wearing a face mask is mandatory for adults and pupils from the first grade

• Facilities must be cleaned and aired for at least 10 minutes every three hours

When looking at how other advanced nations have navigated school closures, France has one of the lowest closed school rates. Children and teachers in French schools are also no longer allowed to wear fabric face masks, but must instead wear “category 1” surgical masks which offer a higher level of protection."

and so on.

I think it's very encouraging that this is at least being discussed, and in one of the more right wing papers. Let's hope there are government plans to put more measures in place.

From personal pow, my son wears glasses, they steam up, he is scared of being masked and he cant talk when wearing one. And so no, he is not going to wear it

I wear glasses as do many many people including health care professionals. It’s quite easy to prevent your glasses from fogging up.

Get a proper fitting mask that has a nose bridge you can adjust and make sure the mask fits snugly (lots of children masks have ear pulls to help with this) and wear the glasses slightly over where the masks bridges the nose.

Also, washing glasses in warm soapy water and leaving to air dry was a game changer for me.

I have no issues with wearing glasses with masks anymore.

The average age of teachers is no consolation to those of us over 50. Who are expected to go back into crowded rooms with no protection (again), despite there being a vaccine that could protect us. But we can't have it. But people who wfh can - I know several over 50s who seem to have been given spares and they all wfh.

I will therefore not be going into any classroom until I have had the vaccine. Section 44 already ready to go if Boris forces me. Give me a vaccine and I'll be back like a shot.

@Abraxan

But surely a rota system works better than the current system. I spoke to dh's colleagues with children about this. Their children aren't in school right now at all.

A rota would mean they'd be in 2 days a week instead of 0,days a week. Every one of them would have preferred that than the constant bubbles bursting, the 2 weeks isolation periods, the lockdowns happening over and over.

A rota means that we'd have to crack down on Kw eligibility - only available for those who must be woth and only if both parents are Kw who are woth.

The vulnerable child numbers wouldn't be as big an issue as they'd still be getting a couple of days a week contact in school.

No one is saying it's easy but it would be better than nothing, surely?

Social distancing in schools is a total fallacy. It doesn't happen when classes are full. Think about it, it just isn't possible whatsoever. Our rooms aren't big enough. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows this.

Plastic shield visors are pointless, they do nothing to protect anyone. They can be useful when worn with a mask, but not on their own.

Most teachers won't be vaccinated by March 8.

I've just been called for mine - I'm cv and I'm having mine in Wednesday. In March 8 it will be 12 days post first vaccination, so no where need the 3 weeks recommended for some immunity. Second vaccine will be mid May time. To be fair for me I caught covid during the autumn term anyway, so this one will hopefully work as a booster. I am not sure my body could deal with being quite so poorly again right now!

But all of the over 50s staff won't be done for a couple of months yet, let alone second vaccines. And in many areas the cv group 6 hasn't yet started. My own area is still on groups 1-4 and just sending letters out to group 5. I'd been told it would be a few more weeks so I asked to join their last minute/awkward time or place list. I know that I'm lucky - I've been bumped up and will be vaccinated in a week's time. Many colleagues won't have that for a while yet.

Couldn't agree more

I know under 50s who have had the vaccine. No idea why they were called as no underlying health conditions.

Staff in schools should definitely be vaccinated if they are expected to be in poorly ventilated rooms, with 30 children, for hours at a time... especially as the rates are currently highest amongst 5-12 year olds.

I will spend my days with 6x 30 different sets of students each day. As well as being jostled on crowded corridors and stairs by many more. But no vaccine. Why can't teachers be called for spares ?

@noblegiraffe

The long term consequences of the past year's school closures in terms of mental health, lack of learning are going to be huge

People who bring this up never ever talk about the mental health impact on kids and the loss of learning due to repeated isolations that happened in the shitshow that was secondary schools before Christmas.

It's as if they want to peddle the myth that schools open solves all ills instead of bringing its own issues when done badly.

If the concerns are real, then you will be concerned about all aspects of schools re-opening, not just the date.

It's easy to spot the ones who aren't.

Agree 100%

While I agree a vaccine for teachers would be nice, if it doesn't stop transmission I will take it home to my family.
I would rather have measures to stop me getting it thanks!

It's a bit weird that some people seem to think so little of children in this country, that they're so incredibly inferior to children in other countries, that they can't cope with wearing a mask. Even though children from age 6 wear them in France, Italy, Spain, parts of the US, Korea, etc etc.

I don't believe that's true.

My friend's kid in school in the US has has rotas, in school half time since August and he's had consistent, good schooling, no covid isolations and certainty. His mental health and educational progress are of course better. With the added bonus he can see some family because covid rates have remained low and so they're not in lockdown again unlike us. In total, despite rotas, he's been actually IN school more than my kids.

It's obvious which is better.

I'm increasingly convinced that people arguing against basic safety measures aren't parents. Anyone who has such a disregard for the abilities of children and the safety of them and their loved ones, and the importance of certainty and not endless last minute confinement to the house for 2 weeks, really doesn't care about kids.

@twinkletoesimnot I'd like both 😊. Being over 50 on heart pills (but not enough to get me into group 6), I'd like to be as protected as is possible.

@SpringSunshineandTulips

I really don’t want my kids having to wear masks in lessons. They are uncomfortable and distracting.

Oh, ok. That’s fine. I mean, it’s a pandemic and your kid could catch/spread the virus quite easily to others who are less robust but it’s ok - god forbid your child has to be even slightly uncomfortable.

I will therefore not be going into any classroom until I have had the vaccine. Section 44 already ready to go if Boris forces me. Give me a vaccine and I'll be back like a shot

This is exactly how I feel.

@mumsneedwine

I will spend my days with 6x 30 different sets of students each day. As well as being jostled on crowded corridors and stairs by many more. But no vaccine. Why can't teachers be called for spares ?

It is a little puzzling to me why teachers in the UK haven't been prioritized for the vaccine . Your roll out is in full swing, but I don't see that teachers are in the priority list (if you are, I apologize I do not live in UK so go by info that I can find).

Its quite different here. I know we have had a huge hoohaa here about getting going with the vaccine, ours started yesterday but only for health workers so far. But then next group to receive theirs are teachers, in with the elderly and those with co-morbities. And it makes total sense to me.

@isthismylifenow teachers are not on any priority list. Madness isn't it ? Everyone clamouring to get schools open, but nothing to protect the staff who work in them. So we get sick (again), schools have to close again as not enough staff. Repeat of last term.

@isthismylifenow

Teachers aren’t on a priority list. Everything I read seems to suggest it’s ‘too difficult’ to prioritise by occupation, so I am expected to go back to work with no mask, packed in a tiny classroom just as before, presumably on the 8th march and should be lucky enough to be vaccinated by the Autumn!

Interestingly, I know loads of people who are working from home who have been vaccinated because of their profession! So, clearly it can be done, the government just doesn’t want to.

[quote mumsneedwine]@isthismylifenow teachers are not on any priority list. Madness isn't it ? Everyone clamouring to get schools open, but nothing to protect the staff who work in them. So we get sick (again), schools have to close again as not enough staff. Repeat of last term. [/quote]
Yes, madness imo.

If they cannot select people according to professions, how did the health care workers get called for theirs?

Boredsobored

Although why only teachers complain is beyond me.

Maybe you should read what they are complaining about. instead of whinging about teachers.

It is odd. I would have liked to see them do teachers in a half term - after groups 1-4 it would have taken days - hardly held anything up.

Then back around 3 weeks later.

Even if it wasn't all teachers but the ones that are over 50 or had any risk factors as a priority

I know it won't solve community transmission but if we want children back then teachers
Are being asked to go back into a workplace which poses particular challenges - so should be done.

Schools are supposed to be the priority above all else so it's odd.

If they vaccinate school staff it's admitting that schools are not in fact as Covid safe as they keep saying. We all know they are transmitters of every bug going in normal times, but apparently covid is v scared of the magic tape on the floor.
It's reckless and will cost lives unnecessarily. I know lots of people who work from home who have had vaccine because they are NHS - but never go near another human. It's v easy to do. Staff turn up and show their school pass or payslip.

isthismylifenow

It is a little puzzling to me why teachers in the UK haven't been prioritized for the vaccine

I suspect that it is to do with the government telling people that schools are "safe" and "covid secure" to go back on that now would be a major issue for them.

And of course Twats4themselves and the other back to school as normal political groups wouldn't like it.

Sorry if already posted but this is pathetic:

"the government plans a PR campaign to build up parents’ confidence in school safety ahead of reopening next month"

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/17/masks-compulsory-for-englands-secondary-school-pupils

HEY! DfE! Stop fucking spending money on PR trying to tell us that schools are safe and give it to actual schools to make them safer.

Enough of us parents have GCSE biology and don't believe the lies that an airborne virus will stop spreading if kids are sitting in cramped, crowded classrooms for hours with no ventilation, no social distancing and no masks.

I am ANGRY they're spending money on PR for fucks sake when they should be spending it on safety.

We did actually live through November and December you know. You can't deny reality.

Looks sensible

Schools are supposed to be the priority above all else so it's odd.

Exactly. Schools are apparently VITAL whenever the government talk about them, but seemingly not vital enough to have invested a single minute or penny in opening them any differently than the Autumn when it was a complete shitstorm!

Twats4themselves

Love it 😍

@mumsneedwine

If they vaccinate school staff it's admitting that schools are not in fact as Covid safe as they keep saying. We all know they are transmitters of every bug going in normal times, but apparently covid is v scared of the magic tape on the floor. It's reckless and will cost lives unnecessarily. I know lots of people who work from home who have had vaccine because they are NHS - but never go near another human. It's v easy to do. Staff turn up and show their school pass or payslip.

I know people too.

I wfh in a non key role so I'm more than happy to be at the back of the queue - but if they can do eg social workers - why not teachers?

This would be the ideal time to just get it done.

The idea that 'making masks compulsory' is a headline when it's masks in corridors that were already compulsory from November.

They're pretending it's 'headteacher's discretion' but they became compulsory in November lockdown, then were compulsory for Tier 2+ after that, which was most of the country for the rest of the term. I don't know of any schools that stopped using them in corridors after lockdown, but if there were, it's a significantly tiny amount that now making them wear masks is definitely not headline news.