How can schools successfully reopen? What the UK can learn from other countries

[herecomesthsun]

Very interesting thread, in the Telegraph, looking at what other countires are doing to make schools safe, here.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education-and-careers/2021/02/14/can-schools-successfully-reopen-uk-can-learn-countries/

The implication is that the UK can adopt some of these measures for schools reopening to be more successful.

For example, in France, some measures discussed that are not currently in use in the UK include:

"-Students must adhere to the one-metre social distancing measures in their classrooms and two metres when in the canteen with pupils from other classes

-Wearing a face mask is mandatory for adults and pupils from the first grade

• Facilities must be cleaned and aired for at least 10 minutes every three hours

When looking at how other advanced nations have navigated school closures, France has one of the lowest closed school rates. Children and teachers in French schools are also no longer allowed to wear fabric face masks, but must instead wear “category 1” surgical masks which offer a higher level of protection."

and so on.

I think it's very encouraging that this is at least being discussed, and in one of the more right wing papers. Let's hope there are government plans to put more measures in place.

I wonder if many years in the future there will be a ‘Panorama’ type programme exploring the tragic mistakes made in regards to schools?

Here in the present I just hope I can keep well until my turn in the vaccine queue. Must have faith in my 2m tape!

We haven’t even got tape, mother!

I am in SA and our public schools went back his week. We start our new year in January, but they stayed closed for an extra 2 weeks until the 2nd wave passed.

It is school dependent, but generally they are on a rota system. I will use the high school my dd attends as an example:

The dc in their final year of school go every day, but the other 4 year grades are alternating days. This changed from last year when it was that certain grades go in the morning 8am to 1pm, then 2nd session 1.30pm to 5.30pm. They are given work on the day they attend to complete at home the following day.

All dc have to wear masks, from grade 1 (age 6/7) up to grade 12 .
They have one by one entry and sign in and have temp taken, sanitize hands, walk through shoe sanitizer, through the body booth sanitizer, then to form class. Form classes are around 15 per class, now every teacher has a form class whereas previous the revolving teachers didnt.

There is a one way system to walk and breaks are staggered so that only one grade is on break at a particular time.

Dd has been back 4 days now, and there doesn't seem to be any issues with the above. They are just getting on with it and focusing on the work that has been missed.

From next week the final grade start at 7am as they will be having extra lessons in the core subjects. It is going to be a long tiring day, but we have to do what can be done now, as there is talk of a 3rd wave in winter (June/July).

From the queues in the morning, I will say that most dc are back at school on the days they need to be in.

I cannot comprehend why parents do not want to take any/all safety measures at schools that are recommended

If they have to wear masks what's the problem?

Don't get it at all.

I don't get it either. I want my children (and the rest of us) to remain virus free if possible, and if that means they wear masks to school etc, then so be it.

But surely a rota system works better than the current system.
I spoke to dh's colleagues with children about this.
Their children aren't in school right now at all.

A rota would mean they'd be in 2 days a week instead of 0,days a week. Every one of them would have preferred that than the constant bubbles bursting, the 2 weeks isolation periods, the lockdowns happening over and over.

A rota means that we'd have to crack down on Kw eligibility - only available for those who must be woth and only if both parents are Kw who are woth.

The vulnerable child numbers wouldn't be as big an issue as they'd still be getting a couple of days a week contact in school.

No one is saying it's easy but it would be better than nothing, surely?

Social distancing in schools is a total fallacy. It doesn't happen when classes are full. Think about it, it just isn't possible whatsoever. Our rooms aren't big enough. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows this.

Plastic shield visors are pointless, they do nothing to protect anyone. They can be useful when worn with a mask, but not on their own.

Most teachers won't be vaccinated by March 8.

I've just been called for mine - I'm cv and I'm having mine in Wednesday. In March 8 it will be 12 days post first vaccination, so no where need the 3 weeks recommended for some immunity. Second vaccine will be mid May time. To be fair for me I caught covid during the autumn term anyway, so this one will hopefully work as a booster. I am not sure my body could deal with being quite so poorly again right now!

But all of the over 50s staff won't be done for a couple of months yet, let alone second vaccines. And in many areas the cv group 6 hasn't yet started. My own area is still on groups 1-4 and just sending letters out to group 5. I'd been told it would be a few more weeks so I asked to join their last minute/awkward time or place list. I know that I'm lucky - I've been bumped up and will be vaccinated in a week's time. Many colleagues won't have that for a while yet.

We haven’t even got tape, mother!

We have tape but some of the desks are in front of it. Perhaps it’s just for decoration.

I wonder if many years in the future there will be a ‘Panorama’ type programme exploring the tragic mistakes made in regards to schools?

Yes! The long term consequences of the past year's school closures in terms of mental health, lack of learning are going to be huge. This will have long term negative consequences on our country's human capital and welfare of our young people.

@HauntedPencil

I cannot comprehend why parents do not want to take any/all safety measures at schools that are recommended

If they have to wear masks what's the problem?

Don't get it at all.

It's bizarre.

Are parents scared to say they'd like some protective measures incase the government then uses that to say that schools have to,stay closed longer perhaps?

Are parents still handing onto the idea pushed last March that children don't catch or spread covid, something that's since been proved not to be the case?

Why wouldn't you want to do something to reduce the chances of your child, their teachers and your own family form catching and spreading covid?

I really don’t want my kids having to wear masks in lessons. They are uncomfortable and distracting

Masks are compulsory here. For everyone, going anywhere. You just get used to it and get on with it. I do not know of one person refusing to wear one.

The long term consequences of the past year's school closures in terms of mental health, lack of learning are going to be huge

People who bring this up never ever talk about the mental health impact on kids and the loss of learning due to repeated isolations that happened in the shitshow that was secondary schools before Christmas.

It's as if they want to peddle the myth that schools open solves all ills instead of bringing its own issues when done badly.

If the concerns are real, then you will be concerned about all aspects of schools re-opening, not just the date.

It's easy to spot the ones who aren't.

Well, it's all a guessing game isn't it? Statistics can tell you a bit about the past, but forecasting is notoriously difficult. I'm just getting a bit fed up of posts along the line of "if only we were more like [insert not very comparable country here] it'd be better."

We were already wearing masks in all corridors and public places (since September), plus students and staff were welcome to wear them in the classroom and many did (students were told they must for the last two weeks before we were sent home), the school is well ventilated and well cleaned and all windows open. Bubbles were relatively small and socially and physically distanced from other bubbles (own toilets etc, separated at break and lunch). We still had to isolate two complete year groups home, including year 11. Which no doubt is because those measures (apart from the ventilation) don't do a whole lot about aerosols.

I will see if I can find out what proportion of school staff are under 50. It's high.

I agree.

Wonder how many of these people were ever concerned about the lack of mental health support before covid and before their own children were asked to stay home.

And some schools were having constant bubble closures last term. I'm primary and every class had at least one period of isolation, some had two. Some children had more in too due to their own family periods of,isolation. My friend's Dd in secondary had 3 periods of self isolation. Another friend who's child is primary aged had 4.

I'd have thought those sporadic periods of isolation, where the remote learning provision isn't at the same level as during whole school ones were much harder in most children tbh.

Ok can't be doing with the grumbling about parents not understanding etc. So I am out now before it turns into a everyone is against teachers pity party.

What I will say to parents is that the teenagers wearing masks will cut cases in primary schools too. Less transmission being past on by siblings. There definitely has been pattern here. Teenager gets a positive test then younger siblings do.

I will see if I can find out what proportion of school staff are under 50. It's high.

Well bully for them.

Many of my colleagues are over 50 and several are over 60. Do they count?

Phineyj

http://www.oecd.org/education/talis/TALIS2018CNN_ENG.pdf

This,suggests that in 2018 most teachers in England were under 50, with an average age of 39y and the average age of head teachers/principals being 50.

However it doesn't add in LSAs and TAs, admin staff, caretaking and maintenance staff, lunch time staff etc. In those groups I would expect the average age to be a fair bit higher and will therefore make the average age of school staff a lot higher than 39.

We have a lunch time assistant who is over 80!
Our average age of TAs will be higher than 39y too.

82% of UK teachers are under 50 (median age 39 compared to OECD median of 44). So the vast majority may not be offered a vaccination before the summer unless the rules change.

A group of state academies and independents offered their sites (for free) to vaccinate all UK school staff during Feb half term, but the govt declined (I mean, I can see why, but the offer was there).

My cousin teaches 8yolds in another country and they do what I said plus using masks as slingshots. Imho it is more damage than good.
Do they not have covid in these countries where they even have to wear mask outside?
From personal pow, my son wears glasses, they steam up, he is scared of being masked and he cant talk when wearing one. And so no, he is not going to wear it

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum

Ok can't be doing with the grumbling about parents not understanding etc. So I am out now before it turns into a everyone is against teachers pity party.

What I will say to parents is that the teenagers wearing masks will cut cases in primary schools too. Less transmission being past on by siblings. There definitely has been pattern here. Teenager gets a positive test then younger siblings do.

Why does it become a pity party just because people are curious as to why parents wouldn't want protective measures in place?

It makes no difference to me now after all.
I'll have had my vaccine when I go back, albeit within 3 weeks.
I have a supportive headteacher and governing body so, as cv, I have wfh during the two big lockdowns.
And I've already had covid, caught in autumn term when schools were back.

So for me, many of these protective measures aren't as relevant in some ways - I've had it already and I'll be vaccinated against it.

Doesn't stop me wondering why some people are so against protective measures being put in schools.

I am not pro or anti! I don't presume to know what the best way to distribute the vaccine is. My point is that vaccination is not a solution to transmission in schools because most teachers fall below the age 50 current cut off point and of course all the students do.

can't be doing with the grumbling about parents

Fine to grumble about teachers though, right, Truely.

Sorry Phineyj I think I misinterpreted your earlier post. Am a bit jittery!

If we wanted to make a comparison of adults in schools rather than just teachers then I don't think international stats will help us because our schools are differently organised to theirs.

Yeah I think we're all a bit jittery! My elderly parents and PIL have all been vaccinated. I had to point out to my mum that my sister and I (LSA and teacher respectively, late 40s) won't be vaccinated for ages despite the fact that she gets breathed on a lot and I can only get to work by public transport...

And online teaching is just widening the gap between the haves and the have-nots even further .

"From personal pow, my son wears glasses, they steam up, he is scared of being masked and he cant talk when wearing one. And so no, he is not going to wear it"

How old is your son, Kingat?