How can schools successfully reopen? What the UK can learn from other countries

[herecomesthsun]

Very interesting thread, in the Telegraph, looking at what other countires are doing to make schools safe, here.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education-and-careers/2021/02/14/can-schools-successfully-reopen-uk-can-learn-countries/

The implication is that the UK can adopt some of these measures for schools reopening to be more successful.

For example, in France, some measures discussed that are not currently in use in the UK include:

"-Students must adhere to the one-metre social distancing measures in their classrooms and two metres when in the canteen with pupils from other classes

-Wearing a face mask is mandatory for adults and pupils from the first grade

• Facilities must be cleaned and aired for at least 10 minutes every three hours

When looking at how other advanced nations have navigated school closures, France has one of the lowest closed school rates. Children and teachers in French schools are also no longer allowed to wear fabric face masks, but must instead wear “category 1” surgical masks which offer a higher level of protection."

and so on.

I think it's very encouraging that this is at least being discussed, and in one of the more right wing papers. Let's hope there are government plans to put more measures in place.

From a personal POV I don't want any more isolating periods- or even worse, to get sick. Financial implications for my family are dire if we as a family got it. Plus caring responsibilities etc would make it a horrific time. I have been so careful personally, why should I be exposed to it just because of my job?
And yes, I know I am not alone in that. Shop workers especially spring to mind. The point is risk could be substantially reduced if some mitigations were implemented.

Our secondary school bubbles are 300 pupils

No such thing as a bubble at secondary. They need to stop using the word. A bubble in every other covid conversation involves a group of people who will all have to isolate if one of the members comes down with covid.

This isn't true at secondary, so the word shouldn't be used.

This talk of 'classroom bubbles' is also a lie as you can be in the same classroom as multiple people with covid and still not have to isolate.

Maybe the government need to note that we need smaller class sizes. More manageable and a better education all round forever not royals . Yes we'd need more schools and more teachers, but many industries have closed and we need new jobs.

@Redtulipses

They can't prioritise teachers above the general public.

The evidence from ONS seems to suggest that teachers are not at higher risk than the general population. In fact, people working in factories are amongst the highest risk groups.
Not to mention restaurant staff, taxi drivers etc.

I don't understand why factory workers, shop assistants and taxi drivers aren't wearing masks and making use of plastic screens, etc. They are very easy to install in many of these settings, especially is social distancing can't be maintained.

I haven't seen a taxi driver who doesn't have a screen and mask to be fair, and all of our supermarkets and local shops have staff in masks (and some with visors as well) and tills, etc behind screens. Why aren't these compulsory? And why aren't the staff standing up for themselves regarding unsafe practises where they haven't been implemented.

As for the schools research - from what I can gather it's pretty flawed in the way it's been carried out and presented. To start with why are all school staff separated out rather than counted as a whole group like in other professions?

Yes noble. Didn’t it change around late Sept early Oct to ‘close contacts’ instead, in Secondary schools?

We actually had a 2m ruler that SLT would bring out and come round to measure the seats around a positive case, that would determine the pupils sent home.

It unfortunately become so frequent by November that whole year groups had to be sent home anyway.

Classroom bubbles in Secondary schools are a figment of imagination!

And why aren't the staff standing up for themselves regarding unsafe practises where they haven't been implemented.

A lot of them are complaining and lots of talk of balloting to strike and although often reported in the news, they are very low down from the front pages or only in local papers, so not in every day people’s psyche.
It’s why some posters claim it’s only teacher’s complaining.
Anything to do with teachers, even if untrue, is usually front page

@Redtulipses

Higher risk of what, Red?

I think it was higher rate of death.

And to be fair risk of death isn't the main concern for people outside of the very top priority groups.

It's the risk of being ill that may need hospital treatment, longer than the self isolation period off work and long covid complications.

At the very least staff who have to work in close contact and are vulnerable should have been prioritised before schools fully reopen. No vulnerable staff (or children) should be expected to work with no protection in place.

And sadly many of the CV group won't have been vaccinated before March 8th in 2.5 weeks time, let alone had the 3 weeks afterwards to build immunity. The over 50s (so groups 7-9) will be waiting longer than these too.

Why are other teachers so afraid of Covid ? I'm a TA to young children and I just don't have this phobia. Obviously I'd rather not catch it, mainly as I can't stand the thought of having to all isolate and the logistics of not having any family nearby, but I don't worry I'm going to die. It's so sensational, and an excuse not to work. I'm happy to work and do things as normal. And yes I know people who've had Covid.

Hand washing in school is great, should of always been this way. I personally hate the large class sizes of 30, it's too big Covid or not.

My brother is the same he's a teacher and seem to thing he's going to die, despite being in his 30's with no health issues. I just don't get it. The government really went ott with their ads.

@ChloeDecker

And why aren't the staff standing up for themselves regarding unsafe practises where they haven't been implemented.

A lot of them are complaining and lots of talk of balloting to strike and although often reported in the news, they are very low down from the front pages or only in local papers, so not in every day people’s psyche.
It’s why some posters claim it’s only teacher’s complaining.
Anything to do with teachers, even if untrue, is usually front page

Well, quite.

When those groups complain then the media won't splash it all over the front pages and it won't fill dozens of daily threads in Mumsnet.

Instead it's just 'teachers always complain' picked up on instead.

It's so sensational, and an excuse not to work.
I'm working. I've been working all along.

Why are other teachers so afraid of Covid ? I'm a TA to young children and I just don't have this phobia. Obviously I'd rather not catch it,

I’m afraid of the thought of having to have repeated self isolation periods again, at no notice. Having some in class, some at home and having to teach both at the same time. In my family, it is whether it is having to self isolate from my DD in Primary or my DH and me in Secondary. It’s stressful, restricting and doesn’t need to happen so frequently if some measures could be at least considered.

I’ve already had Covid by the way, from school, so...

We could just all calm down and see sense, understand that the main comorbidities for Covid are age and frailty and that now we have vaccinated those at risk (real risk, not made up 'I'm going to die because your mask less child came near me' risk) schools should go back as normal. Those who don't want that can choose to change their lives to fit with their own narrative but shouldn't impose their unfounded dramatic fears on the most vulnerable and voiceles in society. In other words, adults need to act like adults, not like terrified toddlers, and put children's needs first.

In other words, adults need to act like adults, not like terrified toddlers, and put children's needs first.

And how would you propose to do that so that children’s needs are put first, including the ones who go back to no notice self isolation periods again?

*I'm baffled as to why the DoE haven't put measures in place to make schools more safe. They've had weeks.

If I was the parent of a school age child I would want to know why the government want my child to go into a place where Covid is spreading faster than anywhere else.

If I was a teacher I would want to be able to refuse to teach children not wearing masks or social distancing*

You make perfect sense. Sadly, the government know that decades of underfunding have led to a school system of tiny, ramshackle, unsuitable school buildings and ever increasing class sizes so they can’t really state that children must be 1m apart etc because it’s just not possible.

Even before covid my classroom was crowded to the point of several children having to move in order for another to leave the room for the toilet. We sit three to each two person desk because we can’t physically fit any more desks in the room. There are two boys and three girls toilet cubicles/sinks for 210 children. We had to raise money via the PTA to expand a classroom door when a child with complex needs in a wheelchair joined, because we couldn’t afford it otherwise, with no extra funding beyond that for part time 1:1 support with his medication and intimate personal care.

I could go on, with many examples from other schools I have worked in. All very highly rated schools in ‘naive’ areas, but all similarly papering over the cracks as best they can to keep providing for the children as best they can.

Tory underfunding is utter, utter shit for public services. I hope more people see that now.

*naice

As a previously healthy (regular exercise, ran several times a week, low BMI etc), 40 year old teacher, I wasn't worried about catching it myself. Then I caught it, 4 weeks ago, I'm sure I'll be fine eventually, but for now I still can't do much physically for more than an hour or so.

But once again, I'm certain I caught it during lunch at school, the only time I wasn't wearing a mask. If everyone wears a mask properly in schools (including in the playground) and they find an solution for lunch times (good luck with that), then there's no reason numbers will go up (within the school gates, obviously what happens on the way there and back is a whole other problem ).

@LaChatte as in eating in your classroom with the kids who are 4/5 years old, so no masks. Is your staff room open? Our staff room has been open if we want to use it, which makes no sense to me as it's breaking the bubbles, although the chairs are all spilt up, windows open. I usually just stay in the class and eat with the kids now, before when the teacher was in we would each have 30 minutes break, but then the other person is left with all the kids.

@LaChatte sorry lost the beginning. I hope you feel better soon. Where were you eating to catch it ? I eat ...(see my last ramble)

@sayhellocaterpillar I’m not ‘afraid I’m going to die’ 🙄. I’m CV have recently been vaccinated. However I am worried about community transmission. Worries because already a number of students at my school have suffered bereavements due to covid. A number have been in and out due to having to isolate. A number of students haven’t been in school at all due to their vulnerabilities. We had a number of staff catch it just after we broke up in December - many passed it on to parents or family they live with. A few, young no known underlying conditions, were very ill with it. A couple of them still struggling to fully recover in terms of any physical exertion now.

Most of my colleagues and teacher friends aren’t worried for themselves that they will die - they are worried that if we reopen - everyone back in fully again then community spread will once again rise and again things will spiral out of control.

@Sayjellocaterpillar I teach in secondary in France. I was eating in the school canteen (big open space, high ceilings) with seating for 300 normally, but 200 with social 'distancing'. The pupils eat in class groups huddled together, 2 m from other class groups. Teachers have their own tables where we are 1m5 to 2m apart from each other. My Dr said we could be 5m apart and it wouldn't make a difference, no masks inside = big risk.

@sayhellocaterpillar even, sorry!

@thefallthroughtheair

We could just all calm down and see sense, understand that the main comorbidities for Covid are age and frailty and that now we have vaccinated those at risk (real risk, not made up 'I'm going to die because your mask less child came near me' risk) schools should go back as normal. Those who don't want that can choose to change their lives to fit with their own narrative but shouldn't impose their unfounded dramatic fears on the most vulnerable and voiceles in society. In other words, adults need to act like adults, not like terrified toddlers, and put children's needs first.

Or we could all calm down, see sense and follow the WHO guidelines for making schools safer in a pandemic?

masks, distancing etc.?

And you could go on with the homeschooling if it doesn't "fit with your narrative" maybe?

I'm on half term at the moment, but when I go back I shall be eating a packed lunch in my classroom (without any pupils obviously), which will resolve the problem for me, doesn't stop the kids from spreading it to each and taking it home though. Really don't know what the solution is to that.

sayhellocaterpillar
Why are other teachers so afraid of Covid ? I'm a TA to young children and I just don't have this phobia

I know of a few teachers that are afraid of covid, they are afraid for the same reasons that the TAs that I know are scared of it, age, CEV, CV etc.

What most teachers are complaining about is that if measures are not put in place then schools (bubbles or year groups whatever) will close and pupils will have many months of being off school due to isolating.

thefallthroughtheair

Your degree in virology shines through your post.
You clearly understand how viruses spread and mutate.

If only the above was true.