How can schools successfully reopen? What the UK can learn from other countries

[herecomesthsun]

Very interesting thread, in the Telegraph, looking at what other countires are doing to make schools safe, here.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education-and-careers/2021/02/14/can-schools-successfully-reopen-uk-can-learn-countries/

The implication is that the UK can adopt some of these measures for schools reopening to be more successful.

For example, in France, some measures discussed that are not currently in use in the UK include:

"-Students must adhere to the one-metre social distancing measures in their classrooms and two metres when in the canteen with pupils from other classes

-Wearing a face mask is mandatory for adults and pupils from the first grade

• Facilities must be cleaned and aired for at least 10 minutes every three hours

When looking at how other advanced nations have navigated school closures, France has one of the lowest closed school rates. Children and teachers in French schools are also no longer allowed to wear fabric face masks, but must instead wear “category 1” surgical masks which offer a higher level of protection."

and so on.

I think it's very encouraging that this is at least being discussed, and in one of the more right wing papers. Let's hope there are government plans to put more measures in place.

@Redtulipses

The UK has been one of the most successful countries in terms of vaccinations, far ahead of France or other European countries.

As the vulnerable and the general population get immunity from vaccinations, we shouldn't need restrictions in schools anymore as most young people aren't affected by covid.

This suggest the need for caution:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/18/covid-infections-in-england-fall-by-two-thirds-but-spreading-fastest-among-young

@Tryingtryingandtrying

Herecomesthesun Rotas especially would not help anyone. Mitigation is only worth doing if it actually mitigates, not if it just makes people feel safer.

Why wouldn't rotas help? It would mean we could keep the children further apart in class, and would allow everyone back for some of the time. Preferable to only allowing a few year groups back surely?

One thing forgotten about when talking about mask wearing is trying to teach children with hearing impairments.

If schools really do go back on 8th March, I've just added up there are 14 more weeks till the summer (mine's independent, so 1-2 weeks more in state). That's more than we've already done in school, so if we carry on the same way, we should expect the same levels of transmission. Most staff don't have a vaccination date even in principle (too young - we've got one of the youngest teaching workforces in the OECD). Extra 10 minute breaks are a non starter in my opinion. Too many kids milling around crowded corridors would cancel out benefits of airing the rooms. Schools don't generally have roving cleaners on site, either. You'd be reliant on teachers to do it.

I am fortunate to work in a school where all the windows open properly, we do have roving cleaners and plentiful cleaning products, and we have adequate amounts of basins, but we are lucky (and a parent donated the cleaning products).

I don't have a solution, but any solution has got to work with UK school infrastructure as it actually is (including all the public transport to school) not some kind of unhelpful comparison with countries with much smaller populations/more localised school systems.

Remote learning has worked quite well for us (secondary, plenty of devices) but has been an utter failure for my SEN DD (primary) and I am tutoring a girl who has missed huge chunks of year 12 due to repeated isolations (her and teachers).

One thing forgotten about when talking about mask wearing is trying to teach children with hearing impairments.

I'm in the ME, where we've all been teaching & learning in masks for the last year (& yes kids manage fine).

My dd is deaf & relies heavily on lip reading. Her teachers swap to a clear visor when she's in their lesson. She has had some issues with group activities, to be fair, as she struggles to understand what other students are saying from behind their masks, but teachers in visors has been no problem.

@Iootraw1

Socially distancing and wearing of masks already the rules in schools but the fact is schools are crowded places and classrooms often very small. You can’t expect them to be able to keep 2 meters all the time - it doesn’t happen. Best to vaccinate the teachers though and our police it’s ridiculous that they aren’t priority for this. A disgrace.

Can't be bothered to explain the figures to you. Sure you have seen them everywhere anyway. So know what you are saying. Let people die. I want my kids back at school!

Teachers that arthe most vulnerable CEV will have been done with first dose already. Plenty of time for antibodies to have built up by 8th. Teachers over 50 with be done within the next month anyway. Plus plenty of teachers are now getting spare doses in some areas.

Also vaccinations for teachers doesn't stop there families being at risk and will only slow the spread in schools if community transmission is low too.

@VioletAlder

Thanks for that. I have a little one who is deaf in my class, so it would be all day.
Probably not going to happen anyway as so far we have been forbidden from wearing masks in class, but if it comes up, I will remember to ask about a visor.

I'm a teacher in France. My school is pretty strict on these rules, the kids generally stick to them. We have had LOADS of cases. No one is ever considered 'cas contact ' and classes/schools aren't closed (they did try closing them, but it lead to too many closures so they backtracked).

I haven't been anywhere but work since before Christmas, but I still caught Covid (no one else in my household tested positive despite multiple tests so I definitely caught it at school) as did numerous colleagues (several who then went in to infect their elderly parents for whom they cared, who then sadly died).

We think we caught it in the school canteen, despite social distancing (2m) .

@Phineyj

If schools really do go back on 8th March, I've just added up there are 14 more weeks till the summer (mine's independent, so 1-2 weeks more in state). That's more than we've already done in school, so if we carry on the same way, we should expect the same levels of transmission. Most staff don't have a vaccination date even in principle (too young - we've got one of the youngest teaching workforces in the OECD). Extra 10 minute breaks are a non starter in my opinion. Too many kids milling around crowded corridors would cancel out benefits of airing the rooms. Schools don't generally have roving cleaners on site, either. You'd be reliant on teachers to do it.

I am fortunate to work in a school where all the windows open properly, we do have roving cleaners and plentiful cleaning products, and we have adequate amounts of basins, but we are lucky (and a parent donated the cleaning products).

I don't have a solution, but any solution has got to work with UK school infrastructure as it actually is (including all the public transport to school) not some kind of unhelpful comparison with countries with much smaller populations/more localised school systems.

Remote learning has worked quite well for us (secondary, plenty of devices) but has been an utter failure for my SEN DD (primary) and I am tutoring a girl who has missed huge chunks of year 12 due to repeated isolations (her and teachers).

I agree with you. Guidelines are good but individual schools have different make up of buildings and site services etc. Therefore schools have to deal with this on a personalised level. It will never be a one size fits all thing. The basic measures like older kids in masks etc can be national though.

I really don’t want my kids having to wear masks in lessons. They are uncomfortable and distracting

So what do you want? Bubbles popping constantly, children being sent home at short notice, schools closed because of staff shortages, rising infection rates in the community given that children are 'vectors of transmission' and then, inevitably, another lockdown?

Also, primary kids seem to handle masks way better than secondary. They adapt. It's not ideal for anyone, but it's a hell of a lot better than distance learning.

Teachers here are provided with special masks to wear when we have pupils with hearing impairments.

@Watchingbehindmyhands that would still happen with masks.

I didn't want mine wearing masks in September too. However the teens are so used to wearing them out and about they are not bothered at all themselves

My 14 year old has chosen to wear one all day in class not because he is scary of covid. He just decided to protect others and slow the transmission. His friends are the same. Teenager I find are far more sensible and socially responsible than a lot of us adults.

(I'm pretty sure I caught it in the canteen ie the only time without masks at school).

@Tryingtryingandtrying

Herecomesthesun Very very soon the majority of teachers will be vaccinated. Once that happens Covid is not a danger to them and should not prevent them from doing their work.

The majority of teachers in my school will not be fully vaccinated until July at the earliest. Although that age group is less likely to die of covid, there are 3 teachers in my school, including myself, who are suffering from long covid. Death is not the only risk to school staff or the families and communities that could be affected if the virus spreads at school. Not through any fault of the children, who are brilliant but just by virtue of the environment. Mitigations of risk are so important and shouldn’t just be dismissed. Saying that we want things to go back to normal now or that they should because it’s hard, doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do.

That's more than we've already done in school, so if we carry on the same way, we should expect the same levels of transmission

Not quite. If we look at the infection rate graph from September, infection rates shot up in secondary after 3 weeks, but that would be when we then have a two week Easter closure so basically a quarantine.

Also in September we opened everything in the summer, then schools, so it was starting to swill around the community too. If non-essential shops, pubs etc remain closed that will keep community levels lower for longer which will lessen the chances of it getting into the school (plus mass testing doing the same if reports are correct). The warmer weather will help too, with windows not being shut by cold kids and teachers.

But that doesn’t take into account the new variant. If there were no new variant, things should be better than Sept-Dec. The new variant means we should still be thinking of improving mitigation measures in school. Masks is the easy first one.

Socially distancing and wearing of masks already the rules in schools
Students are not expected to distance from the others in their bubble. They cannot distance from the others in their class.
Masks in communal spaces.... classrooms are not communal spaces.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones

You say you don't want your students to kill you. Since you must be vulnerable then surely you have had the vaccine

In Devon all employees of DCC are being vaccinated, that includes teachers if all ages

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum

We are in London so by last week of November both schools had loads of cases. The interesting thing is the secondary staff had barely any cases. Whereas the primary had half the teachers test positive.

Had to know if the secondary teachers were hit harder in the first wave. So had a lot of immunity between them or it was the extra measures taken.

It is likely that secondary staff were better protected by social distancing and masks. Our secondary school required staff and pupils to wear masks throughout the day, compared to primaries in our areA that did not allow mask wearing and social distancing wasn't possible either.

The idea that sending all kids back to school in the same way as before will result in a different outcome is ridiculous. In order for the return to school to be successful and to keep infection rates down, changes need to be made...

Such as:
Masks in schools
Social distancing possible with reduced numbers attending - this would require a rota system.
More outdoor learning.
Vaccinated staff

@Watchingbehindmyhands that would still happen with masks

Wearing masks would help. It might not eliminate the virus in all schools for all people, but it would help reduce it in some instances. Used alongside other measures - hand washing, bubbles, one way systems around schools, staggered starts and finishes, blended learning so social distancing can be properly implemented....none of it would stop the virus but all of it together would go an awful long way to putting up a good fight and ensuring fewer lives are ruined.

@SpringSunshineandTulips

I really don’t want my kids having to wear masks in lessons. They are uncomfortable and distracting.

So you could choose to keep them home instead.

None of it will happen anyway. Our government don't even want to,try. It's why the sudden release of the whole 'schools are safe' rhetoric have started to drop on us again, 2-3 weeks before we are due to return.

That way they get parents on side and it becomes a 'nasty selfish schools refusing to educate our children' message instead of anyone dares to suggest their should be protective measures.

Since March schools, unions and school advocates have made suggestions for how school environments could be safe. Rotas, whilst not perfect, would mean every child could have some time in school rather than none. Other countries have masks from 5, some from age 2, other countries use rota systems. Some countries have many more measures in place.

Let's face it, in the uk, we aren't even prepared to protect our clinically vulnerable children or school staff let alone the rest.

But no, here in England it's just send them all back, it'll be fine.

And no lessons will be learnt from the autumn term where it really didn't go so well in many places.

Rota systems wouldn’t work unless they extend furlough, kids being home isn’t sustainable for working families. Plus where would the key workers go?
Social distancing as much as possible, masks for those old enough to not fiddle with them/be distracted. Masks/face shields for teachers. Covid isn’t going anywhere. school staff should be vaccinated before the kids go back but definitely not before nursery/sen staff who should be top priority

Social distancing as much as possible

Literally zero point in using the words ‘social distancing’ in the context of schools going back fully.

@echt I was going to post that. It makes me wonder, how many kids that are meant to be home schooling and in lockdown are mixing?