Coronavirus and "human rights"

[lightand]

I was thinking to start a thread about this, this morning, but couldnt think of quite the right words.
Now I have been on a thread, and with the permission of another poster, I am reposting her words here.

"A year ago if you'd told me what the rules would be I wouldn't have believed you. I would have thought it a human rights abuse. I feel scared, unsafe. I'm living in a world where the government can put law abiding citizens into solitary confinement. That's fucking terrifying. I couldn't escape it. I couldn't escape what they did. Nothing feels safe, knowing they can take everything. Take away your loved ones."
[She wrote it in the context of living alone and being separated from loved ones].

I think this will be one of the many enduring memories when people look back on what has happened in the last year. That what we think of as human rights, were, and still are, being easily taken away from us.

@DuchessofHastings1

I was thinking this the other day.

I plan to have a little tea party for my DS. Hes 3, an only child and missed out massively this past year. I plan to have my parents, partners parents and my 4 nephews. Non of us high risk, CEV or over 60.

The police could barge in my house and stop it. For having my family around my house. They're making law abiding citizens into criminals by having family over.
The personal responsibility is gone. The government have decided it's too dangerous for us on our behalf. It's a police state.

I would, and many others who I know, would happily sign a wager to NHS, "do not treat me in the event of Corona virus" if it was to allow us to live a normal life.

The world has gone mad.

None of you high risk or over 60...well as long as you'll all be ok then. What about anyone else you might come into contact with after picking it up from one of your nephews or their parents? If kids m in childcare or at school, they could pass it one to their friends or teachers.

Sign a waiver 😂 Really? If you were in need of serious, life or death treatment because you'd caught covid, you'd turn it down would you? I suspect not. If you feel that strongly, waiver or not, you'd just not call an ambulance. Which you won't do, don't talk bollocks.

If only people realised we'd be out of this sooner if idiots didn't keep having gatherings when they shouldn't. Yes, your gathering may be covid free but so many aren't and you cannot predict in advance whether yours would be one that meant the virus was eventually passed to someone vulnerable.

No one is trying to control any of you. They're trying to control the virus/ cases so as not to overwhelm the NHS until the vaccine roll out has taken enough of an effect. You can decide to help with that or not. Choose which kind of person you want to be...Someone who tried their best to not spread the virus or someone who just didn't give enough of a shit to not have a birthday party for their kids for one or two years.

@TravellingTilbury

And it frightens me that I'll come back to this thread this evening and it will have disappeared.

frighten is an odd (over dramatic?) choice of words? A thread getting deleted doesn’t stop you communicating with people online. It’s hardly bundling you into an unmarked van off the street.

Oh and if you’re going to claim an expert opinion you should have the credibility to do it under your own name tbh.

This thread is crazy. What do you honestly think would have happened if we hadn't locked down? Particularly in March and again at Christmas time - both times when the NHS was on its knees and the infection rate was soaring out of control?

As for those saying they would happily sign away their right to the NHS and promise not to use it if they got sick as long as they could still mix - give over.

I totally believe you would decline a doctors appointment for a breast lump or UTI, or your child's urgent need for a broken leg to be fixed or treatment for meningitis just for the sake of being able to pop round a friend's house in a pandemic.

Sure - you'd say "No, honestly, it's fine - we won't seek NHS treatment as we opted out of lockdown"

Who has ever been deluded enough not to think the vast majority of "rights" are in practice entirely dependent on the whims of the powerful?

@CountessFrog

Government by consent. I did not consent to any of my civil liberties being removed.

It alarms me that Matt Hancock (in particular) does appear to enjoy ‘the power.’ He’s like a little fifth year who’s been given permission to boss the sixth formers around.

This should never happen again. I understand why it did, I’m livid about it, but I accept it. I won’t accept it again.

'Government by consent' is a made up concept. We have always had elected governments with emergency powers.

The government clearly have majority consent anyway, as most people comply.

If you don't wish to comply, you're free to take the legal consequences. You won't be summarily executed.

I believe that most people understand why the restrictions have been put in place and have followed the rules because as decent people they are prepared to restrict their activities to protect their own health and the health of others.

If restrictions had been brought in for no understandable or reasonable reasons, then I don't believe the majority would have complied.

Luckily the majority of people are able to show empathy and have a desire to be considerate to others and protect the vulnerable.

I don't think our Government has enjoyed imposing restrictions at all. Our society generally thrives on freedoms and innovation. An overwhelmed health care system and even more deaths than we have already suffered is however, not acceptable to most of society.

@Lindy2

I believe that most people understand why the restrictions have been put in place and have followed the rules because as decent people they are prepared to restrict their activities to protect their own health and the health of others.

If restrictions had been brought in for no understandable or reasonable reasons, then I don't believe the majority would have complied.

Luckily the majority of people are able to show empathy and have a desire to be considerate to others and protect the vulnerable.

I don't think our Government has enjoyed imposing restrictions at all. Our society generally thrives on freedoms and innovation. An overwhelmed health care system and even more deaths than we have already suffered is however, not acceptable to most of society.

I agree with all of this Lindy.

They are talking about vaccine passports for an experimental vaccine for a virus they say we'll have to live with forever. How do people not see this is about control? Calling it a passport is making people think it would be for travel only but raab has said they're considering them being used in supermarkets! Look at Piers Morgan's tweet and how many agree with him:
twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1360933501739159552?s=19

Notice how anyone who says anything slightly critical of the measures or the experimental vaccine they are labelled a covid denier or anti vaxx loon - they have conditioned people to respond this way for a reason. See page 6 of this document for how they were planning to manipulate people from March 2020
www.gov.uk/government/publications/options-for-increasing-adherence-to-social-distancing-measures-22-march-2020

Critical thinking is no longer allowed. This whole situation is truly scary to me - moreso than catching covid and I say that as someone who is CEV and up until last year had been shit scared of catching a bloody cold!

Public Health campaigns are by their very nature about manipulating people to change their behaviour that's what they are supposed to do!
Clunk click every trip
The Green Cross code
No wonder smokers cough - with the glass jar of tar
Simon Steven's said at the Briefing tonight there are 2 pandemics spreading at the moment 1) Coronvirus
2) Distrust and misinformation!

That's for sure!

So what’s the alternative then?

And the Govt aren't even mentioning vaccine passports - infact they keep ruling it out! The press are the ones banging on about vaccine passports!

But we can't stop other Countries from introducing them and then if we want to travel without quarantining we'll have to introduce something!

Lindy2
Luckily the majority of people are able to show empathy and have a desire to be considerate to others and protect the vulnerable.

Wow, you're actually suggesting it's a lack of empathy that makes people think some of the measures have been too draconian?
You think a lack of empathy is why people might find it too much to have been isolated from not only loved ones but everybody, from march-june before support bubbles were introduced? Let me guess, you weren't alone during that time.

Some of these measures were inhumane, it's those who can't see this that seem to lack empathy.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3916320-Immunity-certificates-So-your-life-is-stopped-until-you-have-had-it

@Efflt if you want to travel abroad or even to another UK country you will need a vaccine passport as other countries have a right to decide to only let in non-residents who are vaccinated as they have their own governments and run their own healthcare systems.

Vaccine passports are unlikely to work within each UK country, and if enough people are vaccinated within each UK country so we have herd immunity they won't be needed.
.
Yes Covid will be with us for ever like many other viruses e.g. TB, measles, flu. We have lived with these viruses by vaccinating people so there is here immunity within the country and modifying the vaccines where necessary as the viruses mutate.

A lot of countries don't have the same access to vaccines that we have in the UK. So it's thoroughly reasonable for them to require visitors to their countries to have vaccine passports, to protect the health of their own citizens.

Agree OP that this is absolutely terrifying.

Not only the removal of rights, also the absolute willingness of the population to submit to these rules. Oh yes, there's always someone who knows such and such who is always breaking the rules and going to different houses. But the majority, shown by polls etc etc, keep to the restrictions.

I said to DH when this first started that I couldn't believe people would give up their liberty like this. I kept saying to him, surely this can't last much longer, people won't accept this. Surely!

What makes me so cross is the lack of personal responsibility that people seem to have now. You should be able to do your own personal risk assessment for this. Instead so many people are just blindly following the public announcements, and not thinking for themselves. Expecting the government to take care of them and wrap them up in cotton wool forever!

@pinkearedcow

There are threats that social distancing and mask-wearing will continue indefinitely

Do you have a reputable link on that @Wildswim? I understood that it may be that face masks may become the norm when people have colds etc, which would be no bad thing. But perhaps I misunderstood.

That was what I took from it too, saying things will continue indefinitely is more likely to mean when there’s an outbreak in future, not necessarily all the time for all time coming

@unmumsymummy21

Thinking about this too much makes me not want to get my vaccine.

Are you going to have a tantrum and stamp your foot as well?

I am so glad to see this thread. I feel like I am living in a parallel universe at the minute and still can't come to terms with how the government just cancelled our lives, our relationships, our businesses and our kid's education with no consultation, scrutiny or consent. I never thought this would be possible in the UK.

Our powerlessness, and the powerlessness or perhaps complicity of the courts, has scared me far more than Covid ever has. I sympathise with every word of the OP and feel it too. I am so happy to see so many feel the same way too. I think we were silenced and gradually, people are speaking out.

I am someone who has studied in-depth Stalin and the Soviet Union from a 'how could millions of people ever let that happen to them?' perspective. This is how it starts. The 'emergency' changes, but the programme is the same. Who would have thought you could compare Boris Johnson with Stalin a year ago??

I am most dismayed by the people around me though. The people have allowed themselves to be terrified into a stupor by experts in propaganda. Sorry, I mean behavioural psychology and communications. It is astonishing and terrifying. And I am not exaggerating. We are taking part in a huge psychology experiment and I am afraid the results of that experiment do not bode well for our future.

@pinkearedcow

We have some of the most draconian restrictions in the world yet people blindly comply without question

We have some of the most draconian restrictions in the world yet people blindly comply without question

This isn't true. SM is stuffed to the gills of discussions like this. This statement is veering into the "drones" and "sheeple" narrative, which is so inaccurate and divisive.

A woman was fined for having a take away coffee on a walk.

A man today was surrounded by more than 15 police for eating a sandwich in the city centre.

They might not be THE most draconian rules, but they are draconian non the less and have no place here in the UK.

@dividedwefall

I am so glad to see this thread. I feel like I am living in a parallel universe at the minute and still can't come to terms with how the government just cancelled our lives, our relationships, our businesses and our kid's education with no consultation, scrutiny or consent. I never thought this would be possible in the UK.

Our powerlessness, and the powerlessness or perhaps complicity of the courts, has scared me far more than Covid ever has. I sympathise with every word of the OP and feel it too. I am so happy to see so many feel the same way too. I think we were silenced and gradually, people are speaking out.

I am someone who has studied in-depth Stalin and the Soviet Union from a 'how could millions of people ever let that happen to them?' perspective. This is how it starts. The 'emergency' changes, but the programme is the same. Who would have thought you could compare Boris Johnson with Stalin a year ago??

I am most dismayed by the people around me though. The people have allowed themselves to be terrified into a stupor by experts in propaganda. Sorry, I mean behavioural psychology and communications. It is astonishing and terrifying. And I am not exaggerating. We are taking part in a huge psychology experiment and I am afraid the results of that experiment do not bode well for our future.

A brilliant post

This crisis has made me realise that we have no rights, and never did. We have only what the authorities are prepared to grant us.

There is no sensible reason for a government to continue with exceptional measures (which is what these are) longer than necessary. Anyone who thinks they will because “they want to control us” or “to remove our liberties” is frankly borderline conspiracy nut.

Short term restrictions to our rights will be removed. No government wants to cause this much economic damage, and no one has actually explained to me why they think they do and why they value “control” over economic recover (hint : they don’t)

Are you going to have a tantrum and stamp your foot as well?

I find this mockery and taunting of people who have legitimate concerns really upsetting. It's characteristic of the shrill, nasty tone that a vociferous minority has adopted.

@BillMasen

There is no sensible reason for a government to continue with exceptional measures (which is what these are) longer than necessary. Anyone who thinks they will because “they want to control us” or “to remove our liberties” is frankly borderline conspiracy nut.

Short term restrictions to our rights will be removed. No government wants to cause this much economic damage, and no one has actually explained to me why they think they do and why they value “control” over economic recover (hint : they don’t)

Good question? It's a shame Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Franco, Mussolini and Fidel Castro are dead as they could have helped you out with the reasoning.

Xi is still around. Ask him why a government would want total control over it's people and how it obtains it.