Coronavirus and "human rights"

[lightand]

I was thinking to start a thread about this, this morning, but couldnt think of quite the right words.
Now I have been on a thread, and with the permission of another poster, I am reposting her words here.

"A year ago if you'd told me what the rules would be I wouldn't have believed you. I would have thought it a human rights abuse. I feel scared, unsafe. I'm living in a world where the government can put law abiding citizens into solitary confinement. That's fucking terrifying. I couldn't escape it. I couldn't escape what they did. Nothing feels safe, knowing they can take everything. Take away your loved ones."
[She wrote it in the context of living alone and being separated from loved ones].

I think this will be one of the many enduring memories when people look back on what has happened in the last year. That what we think of as human rights, were, and still are, being easily taken away from us.

But I am not of the mind that the government won't repeal the covid rules when not needed
Do you really think the government actually wants to wreck the economy? Of course the rules will be repealed if they are not needed.

@KarenMarlow3

That it became illegal for my child to play with another ever, or for me to have a cup of tea with my Mum. That is considerably more terrifying for me than catching the virus I think you might change your mind if you caught Covid.

I caught Covid and was back to normal within a week. Most people will get mild symptoms...and even if they didn't, they'd take their chance rather than their children suffering any more.

@KarenMarlow3

But I am not of the mind that the government won't repeal the covid rules when not needed Do you really think the government actually wants to wreck the economy? Of course the rules will be repealed if they are not needed.

I think you misunderstood my post. I'm not of the mind they won't repeal... reversing my negatives I think they will repeal.

Thinking about this too much makes me not want to get my vaccine.

There should have been a far greater discussion, all along, about the negative effects of lockdowns. Noone has been allowed to discuss these properly, and they haven't been duly considered. Instead the approach has been to allow scientists - narrowly focused on death-rates - to set the agenda. A wider perspective, and a sense of proportionality, has been missed.

Because were not allowed to. If you discuss the massive negative impact lockdowns has had on pretty much every aspect of peoples lives, your a Covidiot/Denier/conspiracy theorist.

It really is terrifying how our rights, freedoms and liberties were snatched away. Will they be given back?
Also disturbing the unofficial covid police frothing to report neighbours, family, friends for perceived transgressions

Thankfully there were no police around to drag these miscreants of to prison, so they could enjoy their drinks and the fresh air in peace

Nobody has gone to prison for this. I don't think there is even legislation to allow for people to go to prison for this, is there?

My local friends are from Eastern Europe (married Brits) and cannot understand how the UK is so blasé about what is happening (re: statues being passed in rapid succession, no vocal opposition MPs, police officers (not constables) being seen to be stricter even though we are meant to have policing by consent, loss of personal freedoms etc).

But that's wrong think, isn't it? Covid is the only thing you are allowed to be scared of on social media or on TV etc ...

These threads always go the same way. They are not about civil liberties, they are about not believing covid is a serious risk.

@unmumsymummy21

Thinking about this too much makes me not want to get my vaccine.

Why?

@unmumsymummy21

Thinking about this too much makes me not want to get my vaccine.

'Wrong think'! This post will be reported for scaremongering ...

Do you have a reputable link on that @Wildswim? I understood that it may be that face masks may become the norm when people have colds etc, which would be no bad thing. But perhaps I misunderstood.

I hope you're right @pinkearedcow that masks won't remain a thing - I detest them as they stop normal, healthy social interaction.

Yet I'm seeing in much of the media the assumption that 'masks are here to stay' - for example in the Sunday Times yesterday (can't remember the journalist but the article was about how bad masks are for the environment, how big their carbon footprint is, and how they have set back by decades the good work in reducing plastic bags etc)

There is no robust scientific evidence that masks even work. I won't be wearing one after May.

I think the need to introduce restrictions has been genuine. Of course you can argue about proportionality and not everyone will agree, but I think covid is enough of an emergency to justify the awful infringements on our civil liberties. For now - clearly the time will come when the govt simply can’t justify it any more.

However the government has frequently done this without these measures undergoing the full scrutiny that legislation usually would, and the age very concerning. Adam Wagner, a human rights lawyer, is very interesting on this.

The other issue is how people have scorned anyone raising civil liberties as if they’re somehow crackpots or ignorant. They aren’t. If we are going to have these measures it’s important we talk about how extreme they are and that they are no more restrictive or longer in duration than is strictly necessary. The narrative seems to be that you’re a selfish granny killer if you question the restrictions.

I’m also interested in how many people were aghast at the suggestion that terrorists who a court had (albeit to the civil standard) decided were a threat to national security should live with restrictions on their Liberty to keep us safe, but are fine with far more draconian measures being inflicted on the entire population.

@TravellingTilbury it's not my intention. It's just how I feel. I'm sorry if it will be reported. I will still get my vaccine but I'm scared because we've been stripped of so much and have become so compliant now. We will do everything as we are so afraid. But I'm getting my vaccine. It just scares me.

@PracticingPerson

These threads always go the same way. They are not about civil liberties, they are about not believing covid is a serious risk.

Yes, we are all guilty of wrong think.

Maybe one of the problems is the media not holding the government to account over various things? Not just covid.

A lot of organisations being infiltrated by the CCP. Not just covid.

But yeah, class everyone as covid deniers, whatever.

Even better - just tell us all what to think, ban discussion and be done with it, eh?

I agree. I can’t believe they e actually made it illegal to see friends and family in your own house. I think it’s fine for a short, defined period in an emergency situation, for example the first lockdown and this one for a month or two. But it shouldn’t be allowed to be any more then that and not ongoing at all.

@PracticingPerson

These threads always go the same way. They are not about civil liberties, they are about not believing covid is a serious risk.

Case in point. It is perfectly possible to believe covid is a massive risk and also believe the removal of people’s basic liberties is a massive deal that needs proper scrutiny, rather than people being told to stop moaning and killing grandmothers.

Oh, all the usual hyperbole is now being trotted out.

I will revisit this thread in a year and if we are all living under a totalitarian police state, I will apologise. Presumably from my cell in a rancid, rat infested gulag. If I don’t have wif-fi, I’ll use carrier pigeon or maybe I can train one of the rats.

[quote unmumsymummy21]@TravellingTilbury it's not my intention. It's just how I feel. I'm sorry if it will be reported. I will still get my vaccine but I'm scared because we've been stripped of so much and have become so compliant now. We will do everything as we are so afraid. But I'm getting my vaccine. It just scares me. [/quote]
I was being sarcastic, sorry. I didn't make my point v well! I sympathise with what you were saying but I was just expecting someone to jump on what you said because usually if anyone shows any negativity towards anything to do with covid, it gets jumped on and people get questioned or the post gets reported.

My local friends are from Eastern Europe (married Brits) and cannot understand how the UK is so blasé about what is happening (re: statues being passed in rapid succession, no vocal opposition MPs, police officers (not constables) being seen to be stricter even though we are meant to have policing by consent, loss of personal freedoms etc).

Yes I've heard people from the former Soviet Union say they are aghast at how blindly we've accepted all this - there are major red flags here. I certainly haven't been blase - I've been horrified, yet even when I talk to friends or certain family I'm seen as some kind of Covid denier or right-wing bigot. Groupthink has taken over.

Only one side is reported in the media - which has consisted of relentless scare-mongering and guilt-tripping over the past year. Alternative views are not expressed. I no longer even listen to it most of the time. A lot of trust in journalism will have been lost after this, I fear.

@Fridget I would have wished for greater scrutiny and am in favour of reduced executive powers.

However my view is we would have ended up with the same or similar restrictions - with the exception of the worse position English children were put in with regard to socialising compared to Scottish children.

But every European democracy had the power to impose restrictions and almost all did. So it wasn't our parliamentary system that led to this.

@pinkearedcow

Oh, all the usual hyperbole is now being trotted out.

I will revisit this thread in a year and if we are all living under a totalitarian police state, I will apologise. Presumably from my cell in a rancid, rat infested gulag. If I don’t have wif-fi, I’ll use carrier pigeon or maybe I can train one of the rats.

I wouldn't mock to be honest We have shown it can be easily done simply by fear propaganda

@TravellingTilbury ah ! Oh sorry ! Doh and yes you're right. I'll probably get banned. Which also shows how fucked up it is.

We have shown it can be easily done simply by fear propaganda which is my point - these threads are primarily about not believing the measures were needed because it is simply 'propaganda'

My local friends are from Eastern Europe (married Brits) and cannot understand how the UK is so blasé about what is happening (re: statues being passed in rapid succession, no vocal opposition MPs, police officers (not constables) being seen to be stricter even though we are meant to have policing by consent, loss of personal freedoms etc)

Have these friends not commented on the restrictions in the rest of Europe?