Coronavirus and "human rights"

[lightand]

I was thinking to start a thread about this, this morning, but couldnt think of quite the right words.
Now I have been on a thread, and with the permission of another poster, I am reposting her words here.

"A year ago if you'd told me what the rules would be I wouldn't have believed you. I would have thought it a human rights abuse. I feel scared, unsafe. I'm living in a world where the government can put law abiding citizens into solitary confinement. That's fucking terrifying. I couldn't escape it. I couldn't escape what they did. Nothing feels safe, knowing they can take everything. Take away your loved ones."
[She wrote it in the context of living alone and being separated from loved ones].

I think this will be one of the many enduring memories when people look back on what has happened in the last year. That what we think of as human rights, were, and still are, being easily taken away from us.

[quote wanderings]@dividedwefall Thank you for mentioning the parallel with Iraq. Tony Blair's MASSIVE lie is the reason I don't trust politicians at all, with anything. We are indeed being gaslighted now as we were then - the present crop of liars think we've forgotten that. We haven't. I refused to believe in Covid for quite some time, because of that massive lie (and media scaremongering about countless other things); even now, I'm only just believing in Covid. And I'm still far from convinced that lockdown, with all the massive damage it is going to entail, is the lesser or two evils.[/quote]
What do you think the government is gaslighting about?

@Wildswim

But don’t worry from March they will allow us to sit on a park bench with one other person.....

I know - we're supposed to be grateful for this!? It's insulting. And terrifying too.

It really is staggering how much has been taken away from us, and it's noticeable how reluctantly and slowly it's being returned. Note how ultra-cautious the government is being about the process of lifting restrictions. Note how the goal-posts have repeatedly changed over the past year.

This made me think about Christmas Day, my parents came to see us (inside, and no-one died or even got ill...imagine that) and we were so happy and pleased. We kept saying we felt 'lucky'. Then caught ourselves and were like 'WTAF?!'. We felt lucky to see members of our family on Christmas Day. Mental. That followed by the terrible 'look them in the eye' shit on tv and radio means that I growl like a honey badger if anyone tries to discuss lockdown with me. I am following rules but feel very alarmed by how quickly the human brain can switch.

@oldegg123 What do you think the government is gaslighting about?
Loads of things, as highlighted by the many U-turns and conflicting statements. They're taking great care to make themselves totally non-accountable, by blaming the public as much as they can, with the occasional meaningless grovel thrown in, like Boris did about the deaths. They will blame the public for recession later, telling us we're not spending enough, well duh: many of us don't know if we'll have a job soon.

The regular "normal in about three months", like clockwork, since March last year. "We can turn this virus around in twelve weeks", "normalish by Christmas", "significant normality by Easter", and my bingo card is ready for "normal by summer", followed by "normal by autumn".

Talking up the variants, as a trump card when they want to scare the public. Funny how the variant card was played just before Christmas, when Boris desperately needed a reason to U-turn, and then again just as cases started to come down. They'll flash this card whenever it suits them.

Underselling the vaccine, telling us it's not really effective, straight after "vaccines are the way out". When it suits him, Boris will quickly reverse the gloomy narrative to "Loooooooooook! We've done a brilliant job with the vaccines, all thanks to me! It's now your civic duty to spend out to help out!"

"Masks are ineffective at containing the virus", soon followed by "now they are compulsory".

Keeping the guidelines deliberately vague, to keep the public fearful, angry and confused, and fighting with each other.

I've got my bingo card ready for "this will be the last lockdown", even though Saint Boris has said he can't guarantee that.

And finally, massive gaslighting by omission: the complete silence from the government about the massive legacy lockdown will leave (recession, unemployment, obesity, suicides, mental health at rock bottom, tax rises for our children). They'll probably act all surprised when these things happen, or they'll blame the public for it. We know they will happen: we've had months to brood on it, while we're stuck at home, watching our jobs and mental health crumble around us, while the government enjoy their comfortable all-expenses-paid lifestyles and secure jobs.

Oh and, "we have ruled out vaccine passports". The U-turn awaits.

[quote wanderings]**@oldegg123* What do you think the government is gaslighting about?*
Loads of things, as highlighted by the many U-turns and conflicting statements. They're taking great care to make themselves totally non-accountable, by blaming the public as much as they can, with the occasional meaningless grovel thrown in, like Boris did about the deaths. They will blame the public for recession later, telling us we're not spending enough, well duh: many of us don't know if we'll have a job soon.

The regular "normal in about three months", like clockwork, since March last year. "We can turn this virus around in twelve weeks", "normalish by Christmas", "significant normality by Easter", and my bingo card is ready for "normal by summer", followed by "normal by autumn".

Talking up the variants, as a trump card when they want to scare the public. Funny how the variant card was played just before Christmas, when Boris desperately needed a reason to U-turn, and then again just as cases started to come down. They'll flash this card whenever it suits them.

Underselling the vaccine, telling us it's not really effective, straight after "vaccines are the way out". When it suits him, Boris will quickly reverse the gloomy narrative to "Loooooooooook! We've done a brilliant job with the vaccines, all thanks to me! It's now your civic duty to spend out to help out!"

"Masks are ineffective at containing the virus", soon followed by "now they are compulsory".

Keeping the guidelines deliberately vague, to keep the public fearful, angry and confused, and fighting with each other.

I've got my bingo card ready for "this will be the last lockdown", even though Saint Boris has said he can't guarantee that.

And finally, massive gaslighting by omission: the complete silence from the government about the massive legacy lockdown will leave (recession, unemployment, obesity, suicides, mental health at rock bottom, tax rises for our children). They'll probably act all surprised when these things happen, or they'll blame the public for it. We know they will happen: we've had months to brood on it, while we're stuck at home, watching our jobs and mental health crumble around us, while the government enjoy their comfortable all-expenses-paid lifestyles and secure jobs.[/quote]
You've totally hit the nail on the head here.

I can't articulate my thoughts very well, neither verbally and written, but this is actually what I think.

The government from the start have been vague. This means they can pass the buck on to the public.
Christmas, they knew people would mix anyway, that's why they 'allowed' households to mix, they knew cases would go up after it but they had to keep the illusion of control.
We felt grateful for mixing with our families. Then cases go up and we get the blame.

They'll keep stringing us along. Now it seems it's gone from saving the NHS and hospital admission to infection rates.
Theres going to be massive civil obedience and unrest come Monday.

Well said @wanderings. Pretty much agree with it all. It has been psychological warfare, by accident or by design.

@wanderings

Oh and, "we have ruled out vaccine passports". The U-turn awaits.

I do believe this is a done deal. They have invested money into developing them, one is already at trial stage with a major cinema chain. There are lots of polls that show the public is overwhelmingly in support of them.

Scary stuff. Hope we're wrong and everything goes back to normal. Happy to eat my words if it does.

I'm so happy to hear many genuine common sense comments!

I feel the same way. I am not particularly scared about coronavirus, because if I weigh up the pros and cons, I think it is incredibly unlikely that I will become severely unwell, when even my 80 year old uncle caught the virus, and recovered completely.

I am more worried about things like cancer, heart attacks and diabetes which are much more prevalent, and my mental health, which has been up and down throughout this entire pandemic.

I also find the fact that our world is so globally interconnected can sometimes make things feel much more difficult, seeing friends in other parts of the world living a far more normal life makes me realised how sterile and empty mine has become.

I am grateful to have my home, my job and my family, but I am 31 years old and there is much more I want from my life than to work from home 5 days a week and go for a walk around my block every day.

@wanderings

Oh and, "we have ruled out vaccine passports". The U-turn awaits.

I’m hoping it does. Many won’t want to go back to large gatherings or indoor events and this would enable them to feel safer and encourage people out.

Obviously, everyone needs to be offered the vaccine to make the idea work.

@KarenMarlow3

That it became illegal for my child to play with another ever, or for me to have a cup of tea with my Mum. That is considerably more terrifying for me than catching the virus I think you might change your mind if you caught Covid.

No, probably not because there is a 0.01 chance of needing hospital if no health conditions and of childbearing age. The message that this is mild, yes mild for non vulnerable people just has been totally ignored by so many

Wanderings
Well put. What an absolute shit show. And you're right: it's gaslighting

@riveted1 If its about minimising other harms to public health why are Eon allowed to get away with this.

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/eon-customers-gas-electricity-data-b1791496.html

Its blindingly obvious this is a risk to public health and yet apart from two articles............tumbleweed.

No wonder poorer communities are so distrusting.

Enough of the public being blamed while companies get to do as they please, cover up security hacks, make vulnerable people wander round in the snow to several shops to try to get electric keys that the shops dont stock, advise customers to let the shop assistant use their mobile in a pandemic to talk the customer through a process then cut off the electric of people on pre payment meters because the customer cant get through to them on the phone as the key that EON finally send out which they could have done in the first place still dosnt work.
Enough of people including doctors ignoring the fact that THIS WILL actually create a public health issue while screeching at us to double mask because one isnt good enough.
Maybe the Government should take a look at how they have been shitting on the poor and letting large companies do the same for the past eleven years if they are wondering why there is such reluctance to take the vaccine from some communities instead of whinging and whining that the poor just wont do as they are told, because they dont like it now the reckoning has to be paid. You reap what you sow!!!

Remember "celebrate Christmas at Easter"

www.thesun.co.uk/news/14104970/two-households-outside-easter-boris-johnson-lockdown/

Exhibit A.

emma sproat
@jemmasproat
·
9h
@EONhelp
been without gas since Tuesday. Tried many shops to obtain a card! After 2 days I managed to get a card. For it not to work
@EONhelp
refused to get an engineer out & said I’ll receive a card in the post today! No card has turned up!I suffer with ankylosis spondylitis!Pouting face
E.ON help
@EONhelp
·
6h
Hi Jemma, I'm really sorry to hear about this, if you're still without gas please DM us with your account details so we can check the local area for shops with stock of cards. Thank you ^HW
jemma sproat
@jemmasproat
·
6h
Your company has given me plenty of shops to try. I have spent the last 3 days going around shops in my area and had no luck! I’ve lost 2 days work with no pay, because of you! I can’t even cook food for my children!! Disgusting

Manipulation of the figures will be an ongoing scandal.

Here is the sad story from a journalist, Bel Mooney, about the death of her elderly dad, Ted (sorry it is DM but nevertheless a genuine report). She is not Covid denying but reports that the death of her father was misattributed to covid 19. I'm sure all the haters will pile on to excuse the situation, probably not bothering to read her account, but credit to her for not acquiescing, especially during such a hard time for the family: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9279767/BEL-MOONEY-dad-died-chronic-illness-hes-officially-Covid-victim.html

Just to add, the manipulation of figures has human rights implications, because the government use such manipulated figures to justify their actions, past, present and future.

Haven't RTFT. But to me who says human rights atm are the ones who are against mask wearing, vaccine, lockdown etc, anything that they don't like or agree with.
I get the feeling they talk about human rights for themselves, but not about others.

Xero There is a nugget of truth in that, but that doesn't mean that we should minimise the vital importance of human rights and a functioning justice system, or that we shouldn't be extremely concerned about the draconian legislation being imposed on us, and the long-term dangers to democracy and justice.
It is I think a product of identity politics that for some reason what would have been termed 'the progressive left' (of which I counted myself a part) used to be the ones concerned with human rights, whereas they were disparaged by many on the 'right'. Now it seems that the majority of those openly questioning continuing non-pharma measures are from the 'right'. That feels dissonant because (in my view) if you are concerned about poverty, inequality, feminism, sustainability and other 'progressive' issues it is absolutely right to be questioning the assault on human rights which will tend to most badly affect the poor, the vulnerable and the dispossessed. So yes, it may well be the case that the 'right' is jumping on what it would probably have termed a 'bandwagon' and doesn't believe fully in the basis of all its arguments. That doesn't mean however that its arguments aren't correct.

I agree, thefall.

I can't get my head around the fact the 'left' used to be championing workers rights, human rights, equality, highlighting corporate tyranny/ increasing risks of fascism etc - where are the dissenters on the left? Has the 'left' been unwittingly hijacked to just 'blame Boris' while parroting it's 'just the pandemic' without thinking any further?

I really struggle with having to turn to conservative socialist commentators such as James Delingpole and David Kurten etc for a balanced opposing view to the status quo but I'm having to read and listen to wider views to hear balance (esp with regards to how this pandemic has been handled).

It also seems that the formally outspoken left (eg artists, musicians, creatives etc) are really quiet on a lot of pertinent issues. Mark Devlin (DJ) investigates this side of things although I can't recommend MD's podcasts on here because his stuff would fall into 'conspiracy theory' territory!

Are there are any other socialists/left wingers who feel let down by what they feel is a credible opposition? A year ago I would've been championing Kier, but now he just seems slimy and ungenuine. I'm sure he won't lose sleep over it though! Each to his own.

Perhaps right v left is too simplistic (it probably always was). So perhaps it should it be 'status quo' v 'dissenters' ...

I don't know - it's complicated.

Funnily enough, James Delingpole's latest podcast covers a few of these issues:
delingpole.podbean.com

Xero - last spring, I would've agreed with you. I was judgemental and (mentally) joined in with the propaganda of 'its just a few weeks to stay in' brigade. FWIW back then I thought we came out of lockdown no 1 too soon.

And then in September I changed my mind.

TravellingTilbury
It's a very odd world, and yes I think 'left' and 'right' have been unrealistic terms for years.
There is a site called Left Lockdown Sceptics which have really interesting socialist/communist takes on all this. But it is a very very narrow church!
I can't believe that Starmer, as a lawyer, is allowing this to happen with absolutely no question (other than lockdown sooner/harder/longer). I know that he is dependent on the unions, and that must be tough + Labour didn't do well with a leader who went against the majority view (Corbyn being too old school Socialist) so I know he's in a difficult position, but I do think that asking for proper cost/benefit analyses should be a given.

@Xerochrysum

Haven't RTFT. But to me who says human rights atm are the ones who are against mask wearing, vaccine, lockdown etc, anything that they don't like or agree with. I get the feeling they talk about human rights for themselves, but not about others.

You should read the thread. There are lots of well thought out and articulate posts about why people feel the way they do. It isn't about rebellion, or not wanting to do as we are told, simply for the sake of disagreeing. Last Spring I would have agreed with you but I have changed my mind based on the evidence.