Coronavirus and "human rights"

[lightand]

I was thinking to start a thread about this, this morning, but couldnt think of quite the right words.
Now I have been on a thread, and with the permission of another poster, I am reposting her words here.

"A year ago if you'd told me what the rules would be I wouldn't have believed you. I would have thought it a human rights abuse. I feel scared, unsafe. I'm living in a world where the government can put law abiding citizens into solitary confinement. That's fucking terrifying. I couldn't escape it. I couldn't escape what they did. Nothing feels safe, knowing they can take everything. Take away your loved ones."
[She wrote it in the context of living alone and being separated from loved ones].

I think this will be one of the many enduring memories when people look back on what has happened in the last year. That what we think of as human rights, were, and still are, being easily taken away from us.

This thread has given me hope that me and a few others aren’t alone in feeling what has been done to us is criminal, illegal and inhumane.

Thank you all.
You have boosted my faith in humanity

Dowser

www.ukcolumn.org/live The Wed livestream is on now for anyone interested. I'm just off to catch up.

@TravellingTilbury

Dowser

www.ukcolumn.org/live The Wed livestream is on now for anyone interested. I'm just off to catch up.

UK column is a right-wing conspiracy theorist website, so please bear that in mind whilst you are reading the information provided. They do not provide unbiased reporting of robust scientific evidence, which is unsurprising as it is headed by conspiracy theorist Brian Gerrish.

A summary of some of the misleading reports not based on robust scientific evidence they have published during the pandemic:

"During the Coronavirus pandemic of 2020, they frequently published misinformation such as Lockdown Deaths, Not Covid Deaths. In this article, they state “COVID-19 has been circulating for at least a year and yet there was no notable increase in unseasonable mortality anywhere until Lockdown regimes were imposed between late February and late March 2020.” This statement is false as lockdowns have saved numerous lives. They have also promoted anti-mask propaganda with this statement “Masks are utterly useless. There is no evidence base for their effectiveness, whatsoever. Paper masks and fabric masks are simply virtue signalling. They’re not even worn effectively most of the time.” This also is not true. In general, the UK Column is not a credible source of information that routinely publishes right-wing conspiracy theories."

Wow - that’s some incredibly unbiased prose they’re employing there. Certainly encouraging people to make up their own minds /s

Someone who lived in eastern Germany before the fall of the wall said they had more freedom than we do now.
Covid hysteria is completely out of control.
I don’t understand why lockdown fanatics don’t see that more people will die and their lives destroyed because of lockdown than because of Covid.
I guess they are the ones wfh or on furlough.

@riveted1its pretty disgraceful to degrade people you disagree with as ‘conspiracy theorists’ especially when so many so called ‘conspiracy theories’ (vaccine passports) are now gov policy.
War criminal Tony Blair’s pro vaccine think tank is funded by Bill gates.
Bill Gates has not been elected yet because of his enormous wealth is able to dictate health policies of entire continents.

Today’s goal post change (freedom back once we reach below 1000 cases a day....including false positives) makes me fear my “doom mongering” (as it’s been called on here) is right

We won’t see freedom again

I feel utterly despondent

I need to get my head out of the sand though and join a group or movement that is prepared to:

• March, protest, stand up and make a fuss
• explore legal options

Meanwhile, in Holland schools are open, and people have been allowed to see others ;in their home) throughout the last year. And sports still allowed. Yet cases lower than here (Because they are not stupid enough to count people dying “with” the virus, but only “of” the virus.)

I don’t think BJ is an evil conspirer, I think he is a very weak man, very afraid man, very scared to get it wrong after, and now playing it so safe he can never trust is with our freedom again

We really need to stand up to the tyranny of lockdown

@Cornettoninja

Wow - that’s some incredibly unbiased prose they’re employing there. Certainly encouraging people to make up their own minds /s

What about the prose do you consider unbiased?

It is true that there is no robust evidence for those headlines/articles reported by UK column.

UK column are good at investigating coverups - as you well know. That's why you don't like them!

They have good interviews and investigations on current events, in the UK, Europe and Worldwide. They include whistleblowers. As you well know - including the tragic situation the care homes are being put in.

But yeah, crack on and try and put people off from hearing from whistleblowers etc. They talk about human rights - it is relevant to this thread.

They talk about cover ups and injustices because so few other journalists are able to get their investigations printed due to the 77th and other intelligence crapping all over it. As you know.

They highlight lots of injustices and advocate for many groups and people - including Samantha Baldwin (re: the awful family court situation that lots of here have been affected by).

But yeah, get your knickers in a twist and cry 'far right far right' 'anti semite anti semite' and try and put people off from looking, whatever.

www.ukcolumn.org

@TravellingTilbury

UK column are good at investigating coverups - as you well know. That's why you don't like them!

They have good interviews and investigations on current events, in the UK, Europe and Worldwide. They include whistleblowers. As you well know - including the tragic situation the care homes are being put in.

But yeah, crack on and try and put people off from hearing from whistleblowers etc. They talk about human rights - it is relevant to this thread.

They talk about cover ups and injustices because so few other journalists are able to get their investigations printed due to the 77th and other intelligence crapping all over it. As you know.

They highlight lots of injustices and advocate for many groups and people - including Samantha Baldwin (re: the awful family court situation that lots of here have been affected by).

But yeah, get your knickers in a twist and cry 'far right far right' 'anti semite anti semite' and try and put people off from looking, whatever.

At no point did I mention anti semitism or racism, or that things shouldn't be published.

All I said was "UK column is a right-wing conspiracy theorist website, so please bear that in mind whilst you are reading the information provided"

Whenever people choose to live together, human 'rights' are compromised to a greater or lesser extent for the good of that society.

I can't let fireworks off at 1 AM were I to choose to (I wouldn't) as it would destroy my neighbours quality of life.

The more extreme the situation, the more human rights we lose. WW2 was the most extreme and a pandemic the next most.

There is no will or desire from anyone, especially those in this government, to curtail our rights for any longer than they have to. BJ and his cronies are bon vivants and they are a big believer in bread and circuses. They want you out there having a good time and voting them in again.

Being neighbourly and being concerned about human rights are not the same thing.

“Paper masks and fabric masks are simply virtue signalling”

@riveted1 you don’t think that’s biased writing?

Looking through the whole website it’s a jumble of opinion pieces presenting information to suit the bias of the writer/site. I don’t dispute that there will be some actual facts in amongst it all but there is a very clear bias with few counter arguments presented for balance.

@Cornettoninja

“Paper masks and fabric masks are simply virtue signalling”

@riveted1 you don’t think that’s biased writing?

Looking through the whole website it’s a jumble of opinion pieces presenting information to suit the bias of the writer/site. I don’t dispute that there will be some actual facts in amongst it all but there is a very clear bias with few counter arguments presented for balance.

I think you’ve misread who’s been saying what! Please re read posts 😁

I was quoting a quote within a quote? Please do highlight where I’ve misread?

My point still stands about that website in general.

@pinkearedcow

It really is staggering how much has been taken away from us, and it's noticeable how reluctantly and slowly it's being returned

Could that be because last time, everything was opened up a little too quickly (especially in England) and we ended up in deep shit because of this? I would hope the return to normal will be gradual.

Why would any of the UK governments want to keep us locked down for no reason?

I'm cross-posting this:

Gee, what would any government stand to gain from having almost total control over its populace indefinitely... Why on earth would they take the opportunity to ban protest, suspend elections and public/democratic process, potentially indefinitely, and thus maintain their own power? See www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/11/10/930464419/report-the-pandemic-is-not-good-for-freedom-and-democracy-but-there-are-exceptio?t=1613569421025

From the linked report:

'Since the coronavirus outbreak began, the condition of democracy and human rights has grown worse in 80 countries [from what I can tell, that's just among those studied]. Governments have responded by engaging in abuses of power, silencing their critics, and weakening or shuttering important institutions...'

'As one respondent on Cambodia put it, “The government [took] coronavirus as the opportunity to demolish democratic space.”'

Hmmm.......

And: www.idea.int/news-media/multimedia-reports/global-overview-covid-19-impact-elections

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51876269

It's a real stumper.

Just why the rich and powerful might seek to capitalise on and prolong/amplify circumstances that enable them to consolidate their wealth and power, to the tune of trillions of dollars, shall remain an eternally irresolvable mystery....

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/26/nhs-deal-with-hancocks-former-neighbour-a-disgrace-says-labour

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/15/chumocracy-covid-revealed-shape-tory-establishment

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/18/ppe-suppliers-with-political-ties-given-high-priority-status-report-reveals

www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/10/the-rich-got-richer-during-the-pandemic-and-that-s-a-daunting-sign-for-our-recovery/

Power and wealth aren't actually driving forces in the world, though. Money doesn't make the world go round. That's just for the story books....

A better question would be: what have the Government got to lose from continuing with this? Unlike a large proportion of their subjects, whose lives have been impoverished or destroyed by their policies, MPs have houses (nice ones, at that), generous salaries, stable jobs and a sense of purpose in life. I imagine most also have family lives. They're not suffering or losing out as a result of this.

Another point is that MPs have nice salaries and lifestyles even after they retire. Even if they suffer a disgrace (eg Blair).

Of course I'm pretty sure Johnson doesn't expect to be PM in a few years time. so he has little to lose. Red or blue, left or right it's pretty irrelevant when the opposition and most of the MPs are impotent in making meaningful changes, especially when the newspapers are paid to promote the general government views (due to advertising etc).

Finance, power, history, geopolitics, data, law etc can seem boring on the outside but they are all linked and naturally affect our human rights.

@Cornettoninja

I was quoting a quote within a quote? Please do highlight where I’ve misread?

My point still stands about that website in general.

@Cornettoninja

Another poster encouraged people to view the UK column website. I then posted the following:

**UK column is a right-wing conspiracy theorist website, so please bear that in mind whilst you are reading the information provided. They do not provide unbiased reporting of robust scientific evidence, which is unsurprising as it is headed by conspiracy theorist Brian Gerrish.

A summary of some of the misleading reports not based on robust scientific evidence they have published during the pandemic:

"During the Coronavirus pandemic of 2020, they frequently published misinformation such as Lockdown Deaths, Not Covid Deaths. In this article, they state “COVID-19 has been circulating for at least a year and yet there was no notable increase in unseasonable mortality anywhere until Lockdown regimes were imposed between late February and late March 2020.” This statement is false as lockdowns have saved numerous lives. They have also promoted anti-mask propaganda with this statement “Masks are utterly useless. There is no evidence base for their effectiveness, whatsoever. Paper masks and fabric masks are simply virtue signalling. They’re not even worn effectively most of the time.” This also is not true. In general, the UK Column is not a credible source of information that routinely publishes right-wing conspiracy theories." **

You then directly posted after mine saying "Wow - that’s some incredibly unbiased prose they’re employing there. Certainly encouraging people to make up their own minds /s hmm" - which I thought was a response to my post (i.e, you thought the people who are criticising UK column are biased)

That's why I replied "What about the prose do you consider unbiased?

It is true that there is no robust evidence for those headlines/articles reported by UK column."

Phew - crossed wires though I think? I am an epidemiologist and so my only agenda is that policy-making is informed by robust scientific evidence, which is why I feel so strongly about dubious websites such as UK column and those who promote then without appropriate disclaimers

@ThenCatoJumpedOut

Today’s goal post change (freedom back once we reach below 1000 cases a day....including false positives) makes me fear my “doom mongering” (as it’s been called on here) is right

We won’t see freedom again

I feel utterly despondent

I need to get my head out of the sand though and join a group or movement that is prepared to:

• March, protest, stand up and make a fuss
• explore legal options

Meanwhile, in Holland schools are open, and people have been allowed to see others ;in their home) throughout the last year. And sports still allowed. Yet cases lower than here (Because they are not stupid enough to count people dying “with” the virus, but only “of” the virus.)

I don’t think BJ is an evil conspirer, I think he is a very weak man, very afraid man, very scared to get it wrong after, and now playing it so safe he can never trust is with our freedom again

We really need to stand up to the tyranny of lockdown

Yes we need to fight now

@riveted1 definitely crossed wires - I should’ve been clearer but I’m agreeing with you dangers of posting with a cabin fevered 5yo!

I also came across this on that site ‘‘depriving children of oxygen by muzzling’’. It bothers me that people are so willing to ignore such blatant bias just because it fits their world view but continue to talk to people like they’re the ones who don’t have the ability to filter information.

@Cornettoninja

It bothers me that people are so willing to ignore such blatant bias just because it fits their world view but continue to talk to people like they’re the ones who don’t have the ability to filter information.

^This. I actually get the impression that they don't even take any notice of anyone pointing this out, or presenting any alternative viewpoint.

[quote Mittens030869]@Cornettoninja

It bothers me that people are so willing to ignore such blatant bias just because it fits their world view but continue to talk to people like they’re the ones who don’t have the ability to filter information.

^This. I actually get the impression that they don't even take any notice of anyone pointing this out, or presenting any alternative viewpoint.

[/quote]
Yes, replies debating their views or asking more more information are often ignored

I have repeatedly asked what the government has to gain from imposing unnecessary restrictions, and for the names of these scientists/clinicians who oppose restrictions so I can look up their work, but have never got a reply 😬

I agree @McSilkson. The “what would the government have to gain from this?” crew are so naive.

@RedcurrantPuff

I agree *@McSilkson*. The “what would the government have to gain from this?” crew are so naive.

Yes they are