Why can't schools all go back at once?

[Trumplosttheelection]

I have seen suggestions that secondary pupils will have to wait a week longer? Why?
Secondary schools have actually managed social distancing quite well and adolescent mental health is in crisis. Not to mention their academic future being in the toilet.
I can't see why they have to wait another week?

Just want to say I had a primary bubble of 23 last half term. The bubble burst twice and we had to self isolate each time. It is still happening.

@lonelyplanet

Primaries also need a staggered return to allow for social distancing. We need to be cautious in order to keep schools open.

I’m hoping they leak that schools will go back as normal so that there is uproar and forums explain why this isn’t a good idea.

Everyone wants normal life back. Opening schools with what the sun is calling a Big Bang isn’t the way to achieve it! So frustrating, scary and upsetting. I want to enjoy day trips and safe visits to family this summer. That’s what my children miss and need for their mental health.

Well parents think SD is great in secondary schools and teachers say it is not.

Let’s all agree that what we do not want is for secondary schools to open again only to shut down after Easter.

I would rather more people vaccinated then we are all back in for good.so after the Easter break. No more titting about. Get all ‘vulnerable’ teachers jabbed and let’s get back in. I would rather go with whatever Whitty says than a bunch of journos from the Times/Telegraph etc

If schools return as they were in December, what is to say that cases won't take off again at the rate they did previously. We are still seeing 13,000+ cases at a day at the moment - what level do they need to be at to make this manageable and not result in another spike?

Around 25 cases in the whole term including staff....

How do people get such specific information? I can't imagine it being available for DC school.

Rotas is just another way of saying 'blended learning', right?
I don't understand how rotas could cover the same amount of material as real lessons are supposed to; there aren't enough teachers and distancing learning teaches poorly, kids struggle to engage.

Teachers need to be able to drop all existing social distancing to effectively teach many subjects with previous efficiency.

Out of the 6 classes I teach 5 had positive cases. That's five times the majority of the class were at home and I was left with a handful of pupils As a school we had over 30 cases . I can not explain how much disruption we had as a school. And yet it seems the government have learnt nothing and we will be back in school without extra measures such as masks in lessons, rotas etc.

Social distancing is impossible in a school with 1200 pupils on tiny corridors and 30 pupils in a room. Why won't people accept this ?

If there are no extra precautions schools will close again.

@ConstanceMoss

If schools return as they were in December, what is to say that cases won't take off again at the rate they did previously. We are still seeing 13,000+ cases at a day at the moment - what level do they need to be at to make this manageable and not result in another spike?

Isn’t the key figure hospital admissions? Once that starts to tail off pressure starts to ease off on the nhs?

As a secondary teacher I can categorically say there is no social distancing. School have don’t their best to put measures in place to reduce the spread, but there isn’t any social distancing. For example, we have one set of male and female toilets for 700 pupils. Break times are staggered by 5 minutes, but with only a 15 minute break time the toilets are still crowded with children from all different year groups mixing in there together. Plus we have a one way system, but corridors are still packed at lesson change over times and not all teenagers are very good at remembering to wear masks.

We've had masks in lessons and corridors since September and we still had year group and bubble closures after half-term. As others have said, SD in lessons is impossible, my biggest class is 32. It would be far more sensible to have Y11 and Y13 back first (possibly with Y7) and then add other year groups gradually. Having all pupils back at once will just lead to more bubble closures within a couple of weeks.

Isn’t the key figure hospital admissions? Once that starts to tail off pressure starts to ease off on the nhs?

Hospital admissions are still high - currently at the level they were in mid December. Hopefully vaccinations will mean that this will decrease now...

That is the key - hospital admissions

How did they manage social distancing? This is a genuine question.

This thread has bought to mind attendance certificates. Its down to immunity whether you get ill or not. Its not whether a school is 'doing well.' It also very much depends on community exposure and how strict each individual is about going out, and where the parents of those children work. When you factor everything thing, its a complex formula.

I havent seen any social distancing amongst pupils in school.

yr8 DS is (was) allowed out for a single break all day, and again to go home, or to PE (usually last period of day).
There are only 26 or 27 in his same-all-week group.
Windows open in classroom (it's cold).
Staff/pupils not allowed to cross a yellow line on floor between each other.
Pupils not allowed to move around the classroom or have shared objects.
Firedoors are generally open door (fire risk doesn't matter right now)
They have one-way system in corridors
All Masked up in corridors or any elsewhere indoors
Outdoor break they do get to mix with others in yr8 (if weather foul they just stay in usual room)
There is plan to start programme of LF-tests of pupils whenever they go back
Usually England community rules about self-isolation requirements also apply

I understand all those measures are claimed to be wholly inadequate and that I am describing an extremely dangerous environment for teaching staff.

Short of distance/blended learning, what measures would be adequate?

DS's school has about 1200 pupils. If 5-10% of school staff are not protected by vaccine -- would above level of measures still be entirely inadequate?

Social distancing is impossible in a school with 1200 pupils on tiny corridors and 30 pupils in a room. Why won't people accept this ?

It won't be as necessary now that the vulnerable are vaccinated. The NHS needs enough capacity to cope - that's the main criteria imo.

Secondary schools actually managed social distancing quite well

Really? Do you work in a school? Not the one I work at, believe me (and not through want of trying by staff)

Secondary school pupils are more likely to be able to manage their workload from home. To be honest, for the sake of 3 weeks in the classroom before Easter, I would rather my secondary DD stayed home until April. I think it will be more disruptive getting them back in for such a short period.

@Trumplosttheelection

Dd was in school the whole term. This is a standard secondary school. 1500 pupils. Year groups kept apart, masks at all times except eating and lessons, staggered and separate arrivals. Around 25 cases in the whole term including staff and that was with levels in the city steadily rising. It can be done. My point is if schools are going back, they should all go back. No reason to prioritise primary aged kids over secondary. If one age group can go back they can all go back.

Hahahaha!

Well, if my son can go back and see the other 200 children in his year group, no reason why he can’t see his 2 grandparents is there.

There is no social distancing in secondary schools.

The school reported each case to parents, after those affected had been made aware.

It never ceases to surprise me how desperate some teachers are to keep schools closed

It wont matter if people get it, if they dont go to hospital. With priority groups vaccinated - over 90% admissions dropped. We wont be having all these rules for a virus which gives flu like symptoms which is what those who don't go to hospital normally suffer with

This is not quite right, sadly. What we really don't want is one half of the country vaccinated who are continuously being presented with the virus from millions of other infected people. This will be the worst possible thing as it would almost guarantee a mutation developing that can infect vaccinated people and make them infectious too. The right thing to do is to vaccinate everyone as quickly as possible while we have restrictions in place.

This is what you sound like op:

No one to my knowledge, caught Covid at the GPs, so doctors surgeries should all open up.

Along with gyms, because there was hardly any transmission in gyms. My gym didn’t have a single case!

Over the past year I’ve not heard of cinemas creating a problem, so they should open too and whilst we’re at it....restaurants! They all had amazing social distancing, so I don’t see why they can’t all open.

So surely if all of these places opened on March 8th, it’ll be fine. And if we get a tiny little spike, well, hospitals will have capacity to let people die in the correct environment.

@Trumplosttheelection

The school reported each case to parents, after those affected had been made aware.

It never ceases to surprise me how desperate some teachers are to keep schools closed

I wonder if all CV school staff ( not ECV) were vaccinated and had the three weeks post injection fo that would make a difference. I think from Mon nationally all over 65’s can be booked. There are quite a few school staff that are CV and in secondary schools come into contact with large numbers of people.

But when schools open, grandparents and childcare bubbles mean more contact generally and as people have posted here “if schools are safe why not do XYZ” so more chance for community transmission.

I say this as someone keen to have my children in school!

@Trumplosttheelection

The school reported each case to parents, after those affected had been made aware.

It never ceases to surprise me how desperate some teachers are to keep schools closed

I’ll rephrase this for you op:

It never a ceases to surprise me how desperate some teachers are to keep their school communities and own family safe