Other countries offering choice of vaccine

[doireallyneedaname]

I have relatives in Cyprus who are able to choose with vaccine they’d like - AZ or Pfizer.

They have been given an appointment for next week and told that they will be told beforehand which vaccine they are having, and if they want the other they can reschedule for that one.

I just read a news article which seems to confirm this.

Appreciate the population is minuscule compared to the UK and many other countries but given the recent news re AZ efficacy against the SA strain (which I believe will likely be the same against further mutations) - I can’t help but wish we’d order more Pfizer and give people the choice.

Maybe the people who want a choice should go to the back of the queue as there will be more of both by that time.

I appreciate what you’re saying but having read comments like “the SA cases we have found as only the tip of the iceberg” fill me with dread

Stop reading mainstream science journalism, it’s been extremely unhelpful so far.

And you aren’t going to get a choice, so what are you going to do?

@Againstmachine

Maybe the people who want a choice should go to the back of the queue as there will be more of both by that time.

Absolutely, the armchair experts will have a glut to choose from by then.

Sounds like the issue isnt the vaccines but more your own anxiety with feeling dread and fear.

You've latched onto 1 country doing something different and seem to think that means we should change our approach as you have dread.

Any vaccine is good right now, we need to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible. Giving people choices would slow it down, as they’d hesitate and delay, as well as the difficulties and potential wastage especially with Pfizer due to cold storage requirements.

Once everyone has had a full dose of something, the pressure eases up on NHS and society massively, and we can always offer top ups / boosters to enhance protection but at least this way we get through the majority of people, then as many as possible has something that massively reduces risk of being hospitalised!

having read comments like “the SA cases we have found as only the tip of the iceberg” fill me with dread
There's evidence that the "SA" variant is being outcompeted by "Kent".

So everyone seems in favour of carrying on as is. What happens then of the SA mutation (or similar) becomes dominant over the next 4 weeks and rips through everyone already vaccinated?

Can you imagine this policy rolled out across the uk? You'd have people wandering in demanding based on headlines they read in Daily Fail or Reddit.

"I'm looking for a vaccine, I heard one came with a free 5g upgrade?"

I don't understand why any of what you're saying would justify giving a choice - if you're correct that giving the AZ vaccine is pointless (and like @MRex I think I'd trust the MHRA and JCVI on this, rather than some news stories you found scary) then why would you let people choose it?

Cyprus doesn’t have a population of 62m does it ?. Also Pfizer is very expensive and is difficult to store and administer. The source of supply is unreliable too. AZ Oxford will still keep you out of hospital and stop you dying.

@doireallyneedaname

So everyone seems in favour of carrying on as is. What happens then of the SA mutation (or similar) becomes dominant over the next 4 weeks and rips through everyone already vaccinated?

How is choosing a particular vaccine going to avoid that?

So everyone seems in favour of carrying on as is. What happens then of the SA mutation (or similar) becomes dominant over the next 4 weeks and rips through everyone already vaccinated?

Both the strain becoming dominant and being totally vaccine resistant are unlikely so not prudent to change strategy based on a ‘what if’.

Yes I read about that. I was initially irritated by Germany’s response to the AZ vaccine, stating only under 65’s would receive it - but now I feel that it’s absolutely the right thing to do. Why wouldn’t you give the more effective vaccine to those most at risk? Makes perfect sense to me. The part I don’t agree with is their belief that the AZ vaccine itself is less effective for under 65’s - there’s no evidence of that - but it is less effective overall.

The SA variant is suppressed by lockdown, data so far indicates it can reinfect people who already had covid, but not everyone who has been vaccinated nor with the same severity for vaccinated people. What happens if the shit hits the fan again is we stay in lockdown longer while the next steps are worked through and more is understood. The good news is that we are getting vaccines in arms so there should be fewer serious illnesses, every day is a step closer to the SA booster and this will pass.

I was given Pfizer - perhaps AZ is for younger people.

Because Pfizer & Moderna are still over 80% effective against the SA mutation.

So everyone seems in favour of carrying on as is

Yes. Looks like it.

I’m Spanish ..: they barely are receiving any vaccines ... so not sure how are they going to offer a b or c. I read yesterday where I’m from only 20% of the doctors have had the vaccines
I would line the janseen vaccine mainly because it’s one shoot but if they offer me any other I’ll have it

There could be countless variants by the time we get to the end of this pandemic.
I think the one in Brazil is similar but not exactly the same as the SAfrica one.
We need to get vaccinated and get DCs to school perhaps open pubs and cafes with distancing. Then in the autumn or even summer , someone might have a vaccine for the SA Brazil one. This could run and run no one knows.

We are doing a blitzkrieg! Surprisingly efficiently for us...

It is a race between mutations and vaccinations. If vaccinations and restrictions can drive cases down to a minimal level, we can then monitor abs manage variations (which would be rare with very few cases).

Ultimately if there are very few infections, it does not matter which variation they are.

And we can top up vaccines in autumn with new ones built to counter the new strains. I want Pfizer but would take AZ in April over Pfizer in June any day.

Why wouldn’t you give the more effective vaccine to those most at risk?

You’re judging efficacy on infections only.

AZ is extremely effective at preventing hospitalisation and death (more so than Pfizer based on available data) and that’s a far more important metric.

You can't just order more Pfizer, though. They can only get what has been ordered already, in any sort of timely manner. New orders would happen much much later. All governments had to lay their bets as to which vaccines to back and invest in, knowing they might be lucky or they might have wasted some. So in the near future, the UK has some Pfizer and a lot of AZ. You can't just not give the AZ while we wait for months for eventually more Pfizer to be delivered.

However I would prefer Pfizer too, if I can book at a centre that has it; I'm not going to wait forever though if there aren't any. I may have to travel at some point to see family in emergency when things are a bit more open than they are now, so flights, airports, other people etc, which would slightly increase my risk of coming across new variants.

I find it hard to believe that so many don’t seem to feel that Pfizer is overall a better vaccine. I am proud of what our scientists have achieved but it’s not bad to say it how it is!

When it was created we didn’t even have the SA strain and yet it is almost as effective against it as the dominant strain. Does this not show that it is likely to be just as effective against further strains too?

Both the EMA and the WHO have advised that AZ is appropriate for all adults. Germany’s actions look more like political power play than anything.

@TheKeatingFive,

WRT the South African variant, we don’t have the data one way or the other, due to the trials small size and young age of participants.

However, the South African government is giving up on AZ, so I suspect that they don’t think it is at all protective.