Other countries offering choice of vaccine

[doireallyneedaname]

I have relatives in Cyprus who are able to choose with vaccine they’d like - AZ or Pfizer.

They have been given an appointment for next week and told that they will be told beforehand which vaccine they are having, and if they want the other they can reschedule for that one.

I just read a news article which seems to confirm this.

Appreciate the population is minuscule compared to the UK and many other countries but given the recent news re AZ efficacy against the SA strain (which I believe will likely be the same against further mutations) - I can’t help but wish we’d order more Pfizer and give people the choice.

Why are we bothering to post

Because of what @Oblomov21 said. Scaring people in this way is damaging. It will lead to more people refusing the vaccine because they want to "wait" for the other one. There will be higher transmission rates and ultimately more people will die.

The main question seems to me to be this - if AZ was the only vaccine on the table, would you take it? In reality, there isn't going to be a choice for most people.

Has someone looked at past posts of OP? I don’t have the time but I just wonder if she’s a new poster or a GF? There’s something that just feels a bit off about every reply.

The other factor missing from this debate is that the Pfizer vaccine is woefully impractical. It has to be stored at -70 and can only last 5 days at normal fridge temp. It is best suited to a mass vaccination centre scenario because of this. It is difficult taking it round to housebound elderly, care homes and rural areas because you may run out of time before using all the doses. It is a logistical nightmare and a much higher risk of wastage.

There are other factors than straight up efficacy. It is a better idea to have a range of vaccines than just one

But overall the reason you can't choose is that we don't have enough and we won't for many months. Your practical choice is whatever vaccine you are given or nothing. All the approved vaccines are better than nothing so really you have nothing to lose in accepting one. If you want to refuse yours and await the 'better option' that's your own choice but if everyone does this then the lockdown will be prolonged which is far more damaging.

@CoffeeRunner

Well you can sort of choose. The vaccination centre I’m working at is currently (and has been for the last 3 weeks) only giving the AZ vaccine. This is because we have only been sent the AZ vaccine. The last Pfizer delivery was late January.

So you can decline the AZ vaccination & wait in the hope that we will get another Pfizer delivery soon and book in again for that.

But having a choice at the point of booking would slow down the rollout terribly. And anyone wanting Pfizer in our location wouldn’t even have an appointment or a likely date for one at the moment 🤷🏻‍♀️.

A person I know who was offered a vaccine recently, was offered 3 different places to have it from. So, it does sound like choice is becoming more available.

@justanotherneighinparadise I am here you know. You are incredibly rude.

And incredibly stubborn, clinging to your own oddly misinformed theorising!

[quote doireallyneedaname]@justanotherneighinparadise I am here you know. You are incredibly rude.[/quote]
I could be interpreted as rude. You as misinformed and dangerous. Both just opinions.

@justanotherneighinparadise

Has someone looked at past posts of OP? I don’t have the time but I just wonder if she’s a new poster or a GF? There’s something that just feels a bit off about every reply.

There seems to be a concerted effort on MN to undermine confidence in the AZ vaccine. It seems to have replaced the antivax threads from “worried” posters.

I find it downright bizarre that some people are accusing me of scare mongering here.

Are Cyprus and some other countries offering a choice - yes
Is AZ the most effective vaccine available - no

Neither of those things are untrue. Why are you suggesting they are and making this out to be about something it’s not? Very bizarre and it’s actually very irritating.

It's all bloody selfishness to my mind
Many many people won't have a fucking choice.
This is a worldwide, whole community problem. It is not about your personal risk.

People in developing countries will have no vaccine at all for many months. People who can't get to vaccination centres will have to have what they are offered. People with allergies won't able to choose Pfizer.
Younger people aren't going to be offered anything for ages.
Can't you just be grateful you are being offered a vaccine at all?

70% efficacy against the dominant strains in the U.K. is absolutely fine. It is not about every individual being perfectly protected. It is about 1) reducing the severity, preventing deaths and hospitalisation so the NHS can keep running and restart cancer surgery and hip ops and 2) getting enough people vaccinated to reduce community transmission so things can open up again before the effects of lockdown get even worse.

If a substantial number of people decide to wait for their 'perfect vaccine' then the above aims will not be met and overall more people will die because of ignorance and stupidity. I am afraid I do find it staggeringly stupid and selfish not to take a vaccine if offered one and certainly it should remove your right to complain about lockdown as your choices prolong it.

I found it staggeringly stupid and selfish for people to go on holiday over the summer but hey ho

Yes so did I

WTF? Where do holidays come into it?!

Exactly. No relevance at all

I disagree with anyone taking any action that prolongs this pain for us all and that includes going on foreign holidays and refusing vaccines

Gin probably doesn't do holidays, but does do a goo line in whatifisms!

I certainly didn’t do them over the summer and bring all the virus back in from Spain like millions of selfish people did

Is AZ the most effective vaccine available - no

Is AZ the only vaccination available for many people? - yes.
Is safer for the individual to be vaccinated than not to be vaccinated? - yes.
Does it cut community transmission rates if a large proportion of people are vaccinated? - yes.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. An AZ jab in the arm is worth ten Pfizer shots that "may" be delivered sometime in 2021.

@MessAllOver I agree, but WHY does it have to be like that is the point I’m making.

What on earth are you on about? How have we gone from talking about vaccine efficiency to holidays in Spain?

(For the record I didn't go abroad either, I had 2 nights in Eastbourne)

I am accusing you of being a ‘bit dim’ if anything 🤷‍♀️

@justanotherneighinparadise that’s rich. 😂

WHY does it have to be like that is the point I’m making.

Because it was unclear when the vaccines were being developed which would be the most effective or be able to be mass-produced the quickest.

Because it was relatively clear from quite early on that certain types of vaccines would be unsuitable for rollout in certain conditions and therefore, although some might be more effective, a range of vaccines would be needed.

Therefore, the government backed lots of different horses which are moving at different speeds. Its strategy was very sensible and we're all going to benefit from it in this country before people in most other countries in the world.

Can't remember where I heard this but it seems apposite: Your complaint is that the Rolls Royce isn't moving fast enough.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

What on earth are you on about? How have we gone from talking about vaccine efficiency to holidays in Spain?

(For the record I didn't go abroad either, I had 2 nights in Eastbourne)

I was just highlighting how most people have been selfish in some way during this pandemic. Me wanting the vaccine which will make me happier to go to the shops is no more selfish than everything else.

Can you really not understand why it has to be like that??

The factories they have making it are at capacity making enough to fulfill all the preorders from around the whole world.

How long would you think it would take to set up all the new factories that would be required to produce enough for the whole world? Recruiting and training staff for what are skilled technical jobs, having enough reagents, the supply line difficulties of the -70 storage issue.

Pfizer invested in this vaccine and they are making it on a commercial basis. Given the demand what do you think will happen to the price for subsequent orders now we know it works? Will it be the same as the preorders when we didn't know or will they charge a whole lot more? What do you honestly think? They aren't a charity they are Big Pharma.

Efficacy is not the be all and end all. A 70% effective vaccine that is made not for profit, can be shipped around the world and is safe for people with allergies might turn out to be a whole lot more beneficial in defeating this global crisis

[quote doireallyneedaname]@MessAllOver I agree, but WHY does it have to be like that is the point I’m making.[/quote]
Because Pfizer can only make so many vaccines. And dont' start with why doesn't everyone make the same at the same time, because the answer is they can't. You need specific environments to make specific vaccines. Vaccines take time to make, they need to "mature", they are not widgets which can be churned out randomly in any site, anywhere in the world.

Also, it would be pretty stupid to put all your eggs into one basket, by only manufacturing one vaccine, for another variant to come along, which Pfizer isn't suitable or better for, and then for there to be no alternatives available.