Other countries offering choice of vaccine

[doireallyneedaname]

I have relatives in Cyprus who are able to choose with vaccine they’d like - AZ or Pfizer.

They have been given an appointment for next week and told that they will be told beforehand which vaccine they are having, and if they want the other they can reschedule for that one.

I just read a news article which seems to confirm this.

Appreciate the population is minuscule compared to the UK and many other countries but given the recent news re AZ efficacy against the SA strain (which I believe will likely be the same against further mutations) - I can’t help but wish we’d order more Pfizer and give people the choice.

@CrackOpenTheGin

This will be another thread that we’ll be able to return to in 2 months time to say I told you so...just like those threads in March when people said the virus would never get to UK, those that said EOTHO would lead to a second wave and that holidays abroad in a pandemic were not a good idea no matter what the government said.

In 2 months time this board will be full of very pissed off people who received the AZ vaccine.

Why are people in two months time going to be pissed off? Because the data will show that the vaccine isn’t effective or for another reason?

@MessAllOver So we should be doing everything in our power to collectively make those vaccines available instead of pushing something that is already proving to be a problem.

Because in 2 months the SA strain will probably be dominant. And those who have had the Pfizer will be protected. And the Oxford people won’t be. I’d be pretty pissed off.

Good God, is this still going on? I've got up showered, been out for an hours and a half and OP still won't give in!

@EileenGC As I said, if we collectively made the decision to only produce one effective vaccine then it wouldn’t be an issue. Wouldn’t happen though because..... money and politics.

We need to find a way to live alongside this virus.

I found it REALLY interesting that when someone is the last press conference asked if we were trying to eradicate the virus completely no one would answer that. I don’t know if they think if we’re told it isn’t going away it will cause panic or whether they didn’t want to say as they didn’t really know. But I was intrigued. Perhaps people aren’t ready to hear it.

If the vaccines turn this ‘serious illness for some’ into a ‘mild illness for all’ then the vaccines have done their job.

There could be further mutations and further strains and who is to say that another currently unknown mutation won’t work with the AZ vaccine. I would have preferred Pfizer - the Swiss (for example) are delaying approval of AZ.
But for now, AZ is Britain’s best bet to get out of the current lockdown as quickly as possible. Luckily, not everyone is selfish and insisting on Pfizer, if they were we would still be in lockdown for many more months. Plus Pfizer might look better, but given the 12 week delay between doses when it was tested for 3 weeks, there is arguable downside risk there too.

People should not be given the choice on brand of vaccine if supply is an issue. You don’t get choice of a particular doctor treating you either on the NHS. Perhaps move to another country and go private there, if you want more medical choices. The NHS is what it is.

@CrackOpenTheGin

Because in 2 months the SA strain will probably be dominant. And those who have had the Pfizer will be protected. And the Oxford people won’t be. I’d be pretty pissed off.

But AZ is currently working on a booster for that exact possibility. Why would anyone be pissed off?

Let’s just be grateful we’re getting any of them!

Plus we have a choice to opt out if that’s the concern.

The government would rather you didn’t as they want as many people vaccinated as possible to protect the health service. However it’s not mandatory to be vaccinated. If Pfizer is the one you want then opt out until you can organise Pfizer privately.

AZ is if no use/is far less effective against the SA strain is it?

According to the Oxford scientists, yes! "Minimal" protection against mild/moderate (in cohort average age 31), no data re serious illness (yes I know scientists think it should offer protection but there is no data)

www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-02-07-chadox1-ncov-19-provides-minimal-protection-against-mild-moderate-covid-19-infection

The government has said we will need a tweaked booster in Autumn, which to my mind suggests that they recognise a problem (and are taking steps to deal with it)

@LadyCatStark

Let’s just be grateful we’re getting any of them!

Nooooooo. We can’t be grateful!!! We demand what we demand and we demand it immediately. It’s 2021 after all!

@greenlynx Also, evidence (pre-print) that vaccination produces a T cell response that remains effective against the new variants: mobile.twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1359946547887243265

www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-226857/v1

@greenlynx there is no real life evidence on the efficacy of Pfizer against the SA variant. There have been lab tests that show the antibodies bind less strongly they still bind strongly enough they should offer significant protection. As far as I can tell, that means it should protect against severe disease, but we don't know about milder illness.

@doireallyneedaname the UK has ordered enough vaccine to cover the UK population multiple times over, including the Novavax vaccine which will be produced in the UK so not subject to any risk of export bans. Trials have shown the Novavax vaccine is as effective as Pfizer against the original variant. I'm not sure what ordering more Pfizer at this point would achieve given it could be next year before we got it?

[quote doireallyneedaname]@EileenGC As I said, if we collectively made the decision to only produce one effective vaccine then it wouldn’t be an issue. Wouldn’t happen though because..... money and politics.[/quote]
This is a different issue altogether. Not easily solved by allowing citizens to choose one vaccine over the other. Like you say, the way the Western society functions, economically and politically, means there have been dozens of attempts at trialing and producing a vaccine. Wishing we lived in a world where we all shared production of only one vaccine, is very unrealistic. We're in a very different situation.

So we should be doing everything in our power to collectively make those vaccines available instead of pushing something that is already proving to be a problem.

Sometimes "ok" has to be good enough. If your boat is sinking, you'd clearly prefer an all-singing, all-dancing cruise liner to come and pick you up but you'd settle for a battered old fishing sloop rather than sink to the bottom of the ocean.

I disagree with many aspects of the government's handling of this pandemic, but the Vaccine Taskforce has done a fantastic job of supporting researchers and industry in their efforts to make various different vaccines available in bulk to the UK population. We are in an incredibly fortunate position at the moment thanks to their efforts. I'm not sure what you think they could be doing that they're not already doing.

You may think Pfizer is better but, even if the UK went over to using it entirely, AZ has its place. Many poorer countries, for example, will have little choice but to rely on AZ since they lack the infrastructure to roll out Pfizer and similar vaccines. Therefore, it is vital that AZ are supported to the fullest in coming up with an effective booster. This is not pushing something that is already proving to be a problem.

I also swear I'll get in touch with my old friend Neo and I'll climb through t'internet and kipper slap ALL of you posting your facts and whataboutery!

Short Term: we need enough people vaccinated, any level of efficacy, against the majority strain that is here (which is why SA choosing to pause and think has no bearing on our immediate situation). Then we can start to open up restrictions a little bit and monitor the changes in infection rates.

Medium Term: we need to ensure that any other variant strain can be dealt with - remembering that as international borders open new strains will become apparent everywhere. That may mean a booster, a mix of vaccines or worst case scenario, a whole new vaccine altogether.

Long Term: we need a vaccine programme like the flu vaccine one. There for anyone who is seemed vulnerable, tweaked to match local needs.

That's it! That's where we are with vaccination.

We have a solution. It may need modification in the next few months. It will need modification over the long term.

But they all work well enough to let us start coming out if lockdown, save the economy, mental health, lack ofhugs and kisses, schooling and every other thing we have all been missing.

It's called A START!

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Jesus H Fucking Christ!

Why?

Pfizer is more effective is it? Based on what criteria?
What studies?

AZ is if no use/is far less effective against the SA strain is it? 10% FFS!
Based in what criteria?
What studies?

What have you been reading?
Who wrote it?
What were their qualifications?

I swear to God when this is all over I will lead a bloody army of pissed off members of the public to Fleet Street, and anywhere else they choose to hide, and tan the hides of so very many journalists!

So far they have managed to start, repeat, mangle such a large amount of misinformatio (whilst assuring their Dear Reader that they have no axe to grind) that perfectly sensible people now believe they have enough knowledge about virology and epidemiology that they can make a clear choice... a clear choice that nobody who actually does know what they are talking about could or would make!

Add to them the utter utter fuckwits that post lies, disinformation and all sorts of conspiracies across social media. Look at the damage they are doing to the BAME community! No, really, use your covid honed research skills AND JUST BLOODY LOOK AT IT!

If I could track anyone of them down I'd stuff their own words down their throats, parade them through town, naked, tarred and feathered.

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarhh!

I'll join your Army!

Instead of being thankful we're vaccinating those that are most vulnerable from severe reaction to what is for some a deadly disease, they want to pick and choose which vaccine they want based solely on their interpretation of data they've garnered from the internet and not from research carried out by those tasked with the job!

The Mumsnet Moaner's Club can be a very depressing place to visit :(

@Duckchick Pfizer, Novovax, whatever it is - both of those are proving to be significantly better than AZ. As far as I know Novovax won’t be available for some time though.

I can't accept what you are saying about the AZ vaccine. I dint believe that it's an ineffective as you are stating. If this scares others, I think that's damaging.

Why are we bothering to post 🤣🤣🤣

Seriously! You have no idea what you are talking about let alone the ramifications of what you are suggesting!

No. Not a virologist. Yes, some training in epidemiology. Yes, quite a bit of experience in running real life health studies. And no, I don't know the answer but could, with an hour or three to spare, google enough proper science to show you just how faulty your logic is.

Mainly, I think, because it is based in a false assumption about the usual efficacy rates if many medicines, including vaccines, with or without multiple doses.

Look up the Polio one if you want to see a good example.

@Oblomov21

I can't accept what you are saying about the AZ vaccine. I dint believe that it's an ineffective as you are stating. If this scares others, I think that's damaging.

This. Also, how many people who moan about it being ineffective have the flu jab each year? I bet they've never looked at the effectiveness of that and thought 'not good enough'.

@Oblomov21 I mean it’s not my word, is it? Look up the study yourself. I don’t think anyone wants it to be true!

I don't know. But I came home from the only job I have booked this month, walked the dog, looked at the snowflakes falling and the read this.

And the amount of misinformation, misunderstanding, absolute certainty about stats nobody is certain if and the whataboutery, whatifisms really annoyed me.

I really want OP to come back and tell me they have looked at the effects opinions like theirs have had on the uptake if vaccine within the BAME community. And then maybe we can have a more grounded discussion!