After lockdown...the sh*t will hit the fan

[Desperado40]

My biggest fear is not covid or if life will be ever back to normal. I know this will pass and we will be able to socialise, travel etc. at some point.
What’s keeping me awake at night, literally, is the state of affairs when we are out of the immediate covid crisis. There will be high unemployment, lots of businesses will go bust after support tap is off, mental health and general health crisis (think of the huge backlog of surgeries and treatments postponed!). But most of all, I ma fearingthe day when the government starts clawing billions spent back from us. I feel that our quality of life will be much worse (as a nation) than we realise. There is also brexit to add to it all. Has anyone got any positive views on this to share (and make me feel better?). Need some optimism desperately.

Fuck reading this thread, I'm depressed enough! I only read a couple of posts. Eat instead.

@AnaisNun as pps have pointed out those jobs were traditionally done by teenagers. Tbh I think that's less demeaning than getting adult workers doing them just because they're foreign. Have you seen the conditions the workers live in while here?

@LaurieFairyCake well said

There is some deliberate misunderstanding going on here.

I neither think manual agricultural Labour is beneath ANYONE, nor do I approve of using migrant Labour as an excuse for poor pay or working conditions.

I DO think it’s VERY rich for adults on this thread to talk about what teenagers can and can’t do, post Covid, to free up funds for the NHS, prop up the economy, and mitigate the agricultural workforce and economic disaster caused by a brexit policy that overwhelmingly few of them would have voted for.

That was for @JackieWeaver4PM

Erm, I think life will be transformed for the good in some ways.

More value on what really matters in life (relationships and good health) rather than "buying stuff".

We will really enjoy things that used to be just ordinary.

Changed working patterns that allow more balanced lives.

New opportunities and ways of connecting. In the area I am training in, courses which previously would only ever have been available in London are now happening by zoom, and I think this will be retained in some form or other, perhaps alongside a face to face course, because it so widens the net of people who can attend. There will be all sorts of opportunities I probably wouldn't have had otherwise.

We will all have an experiential (rather than merely intellectual) understanding that serious things can come to pass in the world which will help us to be able to take climate change seriously and actually start to DO something about it to try and safeguard the future of the planet.

Of course there will be difficulties too - economic, financial, health, mental health, educational. But I don't think it will be all bleak.

If the lockdown is eased by May/June I think we are all going to have such a nice summer - even if low key - just to be free to see each other for a cup of tea in the garden and for kids to play out together on long summer evenings. It will be lovely!

This winter has been really really hard for everyone, and even harder than that for some.

Take each day as it comes and make the best if it are each stage. No point stressing about it.

Nobody voted for covid, Anais.

Erm - have you seen the new white paper out today? I think you're being a bit paranoid!

@Bumpsadaisie

Erm - have you seen the new white paper out today? I think you're being a bit paranoid!

Sorry - this was for @ktp100

Today's white paper represents a significant rolling back from the privatisation drive that got started with the Health and Social Care Act and then enshrined by the EU public procurement directive.

@Livelovebehappy

It’s our children who are going to face the brunt of this in years to come. To claw back the money paid out during the virus, raising the pension age is definitely on the cards. I reckon they’ll raise it to 75. I know people are living longer, but couldn’t imagine having to work til that age.

Which is why we are starting a savings pension account for the kids.

@m0therofdragons

Who said anyone did?
People voted for brexit though, which was the original proposition- that teen farm labour could free up funds “saved by brexit” for the nhs, and teens could mitigate the agricultural labour shortfalls

Keep up babes

I expect that Saint Boris and most of his merry men will quietly shuffle off into the sunset just before this shit hits the fan

Spot on; I'm only surprised he's still there, but don't expect it to be long ("Long Covid" perhaps?)

I do agree that the debt could be stretched out for decades rather than "repaid", but it's the money needed to service it that matters - plus what'll be required for future needs when much of the taxpaying base has been trashed
No doubt they'll just go on with quantitaive easing printing money instead ... hyperinflation anyone?

@LaurieFairyCake

the effects of lockdown will claim many more lives than Covid over the next few years

I've seen this repeated a lot and I really question it

First of all you can't separate them out - we are locked down BECAUSE of Covid - if we didn't lock down they guesstimate more than 1.5 million dead in the UK

Can you imagine the effects of that number that would continue for years? So suicides because many people become bereaved, businesses shut because their owner dies, mental health issues at all the loss...

Plus we'd then still have to deal with the fact that other countries locked down and WE DIDN'T - can you imagine how our international neighbours would treat us - maybe sanctions? War?

Also - they would have suppressed the virus and we as a country might have produced hundreds of permutations of the virus - can you imagine how they would treat us then ?

Nothing exists in a vacuum - we couldn't have gone our own way and taken no responsibility while every other country did

Who has guesstimated 1.5 million? And is that on the basis of letting rip, if not what level of restrictions does it envisage? I have never heard that figure.

The rest about other countries going to war with us if we didn’t lock down is bizarre. Sweden hasn’t locked down. Large swathes of America hasn’t locked down. Brazil hasn’t locked down. Where have you seen any hint or evidence of anyone going to war with them about it?

Lockdowns won’t be ending anytime soon OP so this is a scenario you can push right to the back your mind. This thing is just getting started.

What do you mean by quality of life though? Holidays, meals out or just the basics?What can you control though that might help you feel better? I am sure everyone feels vague unease . If you try and think of specific things that worry you you can at least try and deal with those or acknowledge them but avoid catastrophising because it will just make you feel worse.

Avoid the more melodramatic papers and websites for starters that are just clickbait. Avoid doom and gloomers on MN too.

But most of all, I ma fearingthe day when the government starts clawing billions spent back from us

That part worries me too. Most of us want an nhs system and are happy that it’s there through taxes. However lots of people won’t have benefitted from EOTHO, furlough, benefits etc but will likely end up having to pay more tax.

There will hopefully be some positives though. More wfh or work life balance, meetings and trainings done remotely which has the added benefit to the environment, smaller weddings and less travel.

We shall be exploring a "new place" every weekend even if it's just a new pub along a local canal.

Big wide wonderful world to explore. With family and friends.

We have enough stuff!

Ah those rose tinted roaring 20s... The general strike and the wall street crash... not to mention what happened after that.

Still why not cherry pick historical inaccuracies to suit an argument.

@amylou8

The effects of lockdown will claim many more lives than covid over the coming years.

Yup! Not in the physical sense but everything else. But no one cares about that do they.

Today's white paper represents a significant rolling back from the privatisation drive that got started with the Health and Social Care Act and then enshrined by the EU public procurement directive

Amusingly, this is the one that would commit GPs, hospitals and the care sector to working together properly for the benefit of all

And if they're deluded enough to imagine that'll ever happen, I wouldn't set much store on assurances about privatisation ... though no doubt a few crony-owned management consultancies will make a bob or two out of it

@Waxonwaxoff0

I personally think we will have a "roaring 20s" scenario. Hopefully the people who are still working will want to get out and spend to help the economy, I will be one of them!

Oooh i hope so.

@AnaisNun I think you meant to tag someone else in for your patronising comment as it seems entirely unrelated to what I wrote.

I'm a low earner, haven't gotten a penny during all this and have physically been in work the entire time. I won't have a roaring twenties because I do not have the money. My children and I will spend a lifetime paying it back all the same

But let's not be too gloomy, at least the upper middle class will have the time of their lives for a while. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to get a glimpse of in on social media every so often...

I’m planning to spend my money as much as possible with smaller businesses and restaurants who have survived. I live in central london and it pretty chilling seeing how many little places I’ve known for decades have shut up for good. Feels like a really important bit of the weave has gone.