I thought vaccines were our way out??

[user2021]

Why are we introducing travel restrictions now? And why are we being told things won't be back to normal by the summer/not to book any holidays abroad?

I thought the vaccines were our way out of this mess?

What needs to happen to get us back to normal? I thought once hospitalisation numbers are greatly reduce and the NHS can cope then that's that?!! We were never perusing a zero transmission policy, we were pursuing a don't-overwhelm-the-NHS-policy, or am I missing something?

Or it could become less virulent which would be a good thing.

bumblymummy I notice you didn't respond to my question asking which mutations you were thinking of when you made an earlier claim about mutations. This latest claim of yours really takes the biscuit and I hope no one reading the thread is buying into what you're saying.

It would have been lovely if the virus had mutated to become less virulent but it hasn't. It would have been, in some ways, even better if the virus had mutated to become equally virulent but less transmissible as this is much better in terms of a death toll (think Ebola). But it hasn't.

The news, which you seem to resent people beaming into your homes (by the way, it's only in North Korea that the news is compulsory - you can actually switch it off or just not switch it on) has alerted us all to the fact that the virus hasn't mutated in the ways we would have liked. It may happen yet but it is not what has happened at this point and that's what we have to work with. We're hoping that, rather than having a vaccine that stopped you ending ill, we have a vaccine that turns Covid into the disease we wish it had mutated into.

Let's deal with what we've got which is a worse virus, in one way or another, than we had at the start of this. You can misquote bits of data but overall, it's worse and it's different. It's not the perfect virus for our vaccines anymore. We have vaccines that pretty much work on the dominant strains in some important ways but not in other ways that were really important in giving us back freedom at an early stage. We're losing our grip on the virus in terms of our vaccines, because of its ability to mutate. We're in a good position relative to no vaccine but it's still a fragile position. We had hoped the virus mutated more slowly than it does. We had hoped it would get better at transmission but worse at causing harm to the host because what's the point of that really? The virus was unreasonable and decided to get a bit better at both. The reason why this is not awful news is that we have a vaccine that still works to some extent. How long that is true depends on how many opportunities the virus has to replicate, mutate and adapt. We can tweak the vaccine and buy time but we really do have to buy time because tweaking and production takes months, during which time the virus is not sitting reasonably waiting for someone to blow the starting whistle again.

You will benefit hugely from the vaccine, in one way or another - everyone will. So take a moment and think of the scientists who are frantically analysing genome sequencing because it does indeed matter how this virus has mutated. They've just got a vaccine out in record time. Instead of giving themselves a pat on the back and heading off on holiday, they're back in the lab working on Round 2 because we're not out of this yet.

Be as blase as you like but professionals cooking up this thing are not nearly as relaxed and people are working extremely hard behind the scenes so you can be this ill-informed, casual and have a normal life to go back to with doctors and nurses who are still standing and beds that are available.

This does not have to be scary. We have something that works. We're not in Syria and our children aren't either, something which doesn't make current deprivations easier but does lend some perspective. Despite the death toll, we are extremely lucky to be enduring this in the UK, relative to many other countries. With our positioning re the vaccine, we're probably going to feel increasingly lucky.

If you're not going to get the vaccine, don't but please have a good reason. Not because you're cross at being denied at a summer holiday. And do be aware that this is all we have to bring this to a close other than social distancing and lockdown - there may be improved treatments but there probably won't be another game changer on offer like a vaccine.

Charles Walker might feel differently if he worked in ICU.

His ideas would inevitably mean that many citizens would not have access to the treatment enjoyed by the PM.

How would he choose? Would members of government get special access to oxygen and best practice in treatment or would they forgo it, having been the ones to decide on a course of action that would lead to others missing out?

Some ridiculous choices left unanswered and unexamined. It's easy to sound off when you're not the one who will be taking responsibility for all those missed cancer treatments and hospitals declaring major incidents.

@myfriendsgivebadadvice pick a virus, any virus. They all mutate. If you want a more specific example, flu. My point was that we don’t usually worry about different versions of viruses coming in from other countries unless they appear to be causing problems eg when swine flu cropped up in 2009. All these variants that are the dominant strains in other countries are have pretty much the same IFR (which is low for the vast majority of people).

It hadn’t mutated into a milder strain yet. Nor has it mutated into a much more deadly one. So why focus on the potential of the negative outcome when the positive one is just as likely?

Oh, and I don’t resent news, I resent irresponsible sensational journalism based on limited data and misleading headlines.

The rest of your post is kind of waffley and not really saying much. I have no problem with scientists continuing their research and developing the vaccine tweaks required for whatever strain is dominant - they do they for the flu vaccine every year.

We're hoping that, rather than having a vaccine that stopped you ending ill, we have a vaccine that turns Covid into the disease we wish it had mutated into

Really? I haven't seen this anywhere that we are trying to produce a vaccine that turns covid into the disease we wish it had mutated into.
Could you link to this bit of info please I'd love to read more about it.

All I feel you've done with that massive post is undermine the vaccine, which despite the new variants,scientists still having a lot of confidence in. Then towards the end I feel you tried to redeem yourself by instilling faith in the vaccine again. Such a very contradictory and waffley post all in all.

"We're losing our grip on the virus in terms of our vaccines, because of its ability to mutate."
^ Personally THIS is just the kind of shit I feel MSM loves to spout.

I for one have a lot of faith in the vaccine being out way out and I have faith in the scientists that they know what they are doing and they expected the virus to mutate, in a more 'aggressive' way, so they already planned their next step.

It is just a race against time really. As the virus mutates and a variant appears we somehow have to tweak the vaccine/s .
Whether we can catch up with them sufficiently is unknown.
Presumably we will still experience some difficulties protecting the most vulnerable but hopefully we will have overall fewer undergoing serious
treatment in hospital . Being in ICU is no fun

So why focus on the potential of the negative outcome when the positive one is just as likely

Do you need to ask? This isn't an exercise in positive thinking!! For a start, you gloss over the fact that the variants have tended to become, if anything, more serious. So while it might have been comforting to think that less virulence was likely, that's not the way things are going. So we don't even need to pick an option, any option, and go for the one we like best. Unfortunately it's happening.

As for why we'd need to 'focus' on the more negative outcomes if two outcomes were equally likely, we consider the risks and potential fallout of each scenario and react appropriately. Obviously we will have more to react to in a more problematic scenario because it will be more important to do something.

Covid is not like the flu virus either.

I'm sure the scientists will be delighted to know you're happy for them to tweak the vaccine in response to the variants you think are irrelevant despite their reducing efficacy. You're incredibly entitled.

I personally think the press are to blame here. Scaremongering as it sells.

Has anyone considered that the more episodes of COVID-19 your immune system encounters between now and when you are 60, the more likely you are to survive the disease after the age of 60.

*Covid is not like the flu virus either.

I'm sure the scientists will be delighted to know you're happy for them to tweak the vaccine in response to the variants you think are irrelevant despite their reducing efficacy.*

I didn’t say it was like the flu. It actually mutates less than it for a start. I was just giving an example of another virus that mutates seeing as you were struggling to think of one.

Where have I said vaccines are irrelevant? I think you’re just trying to argue with people for the sake of it. I suppose it’s one way of alleviating boredom.

@Ttbhappy I definitely think they have a lot to answer for.

@myfriendsgivebadadvice and her waffling and scare mongering and doom and gloom once yet again.

"We're losing our grip on the virus in terms of our vaccines, because of its ability to mutate"

"We're hoping that, rather than having a vaccine that stopped you ending ill, we have a vaccine that turns Covid into the disease we wish it had mutated into."

"We had hoped the virus mutated more slowly than it does"

"Its not the perfect virus for our vaccines anymore"

Who's we? Do you have inside government information? Your speaking for no one but yourself.

I would bet every last pound I have in the bank that no government scientists worth their salt would have never have hoped it would mutate into something they wish it was, or believed it would be a virus perfect for the vaccine or predicted the rate it was going to mutate.
They treat this like any virus out there, as unpredictable and at a worst case scenario. Which is why I imagine they're working their socks off for booster jabs cos they know it will mutate like viruses do!
What happens when a new variant comes after the South African one? And the one after that?and the one after that? Keep us locked up and muzzled to 'get ahead of them' as you put it?

You can lock yourself in your house and piss the bed at the thought of new strains all you like, the rest will take our chances.

@Linearpark

Of course the immune system of a healthy person can cope with whatever variants of the virus encountered: it doesn't need scientists, it just needs vitamins especially B/C/D and zinc.

Do you believe that or is that sarcasm?

Polio is a virus and so is smallpox. Ebola too. All you need is a daily multivitamin and bingo?

The vaccine, as any vaccine, does not stop the virus. It just means if you get it you won't get it so badly.

The social distancing and restrictions will stay in place and removed slowly to enable the virus to dissolve itself and disappear.

It maybe will disappear or not. It maybe a yearly seasonal illness like the flu. It maybe vaccines like the flu will be given yearly to everyone.

The vaccine is an aid useful with all the other aids to eradicate or/and control over a period of time

Any vaccine you have had does not stop you getting the virus. Example which is true: my daughter had her measles jab when she was a year old.

At two years she caught measles. We were bluntly told that if she hadn't been vaccinated we would have probably lost her or at the least she would been left with life changing health needs, as she was so poorly.

Its not just to do with variants either. They are hoping to have a children vaccine ready by the end of the year

New Covid variants will wipe out all the lockdowns we’ve done and any all the vaccinations we’ve given out.

It's nuts. They don't vaccinate the whole country for flu every year. They are not going to vaccinate everyone for this every year. Vaccinate the vulnerable and let us crack on with our lives. This is far more damaging to mental health. In almost 12 months I have only been to work in an office full of people or the supermarket. That's it other than the odd school run. It makes you wonder what the point of living is if your so restricted you can't even see family.

Perhaps its because I have a scientific background but I would have thought that few could not understand that no-one - Boris, the Scientific Advisors, Mystic Meg et al can say with any certainty where we will be vis a vis the virus in 3, 6, 9, 12 months time or beyond. The virus is a tool but not the solution. Our behaviour is just as important and as so many of our population are entitled, selfish, irresponsible people with no sense of duty towards their community, the vaccine's efficacy will be compromised.

“If there's a new strain, and you get a mild illness after receiving your vaccine, then I don't see the issue? So long as you're not hospitalised and taking up a bed in a hospital.”

From what I heard on the radio yesterday, the issue is that although you may not be hospitalized, you will still be able to spread the virus, especially as you may not even be aware that you are infected and therefore will not be isolating. Presumably to others who have not been fortunate enough to have been vaccinated and may be hospitalized or worse.

Not read the whole thread so apologies if I'm repeating what others have already said.

Not everyone is going to take up the 'offer' of the vaccine, so it will still be doing the rounds even a year or more from now.

There are countries where you have to have specific vaccinations if you want to go to them, with this virus being a worldwide thing, vaccination across the world isn't moving as quickly as it is here, so people will still be bringing it back in.

In my opinion, if you want to travel outside the UK (or come into the UK) you should have proof that you've been vaccinated in your passport, maybe along the lines of the visa system. That way, no-one would be allowed in/back in if they've not had the vaccine, or, failing that, I'd definitely agree with quarantining people at their own cost.

If you want to bring an animal into the UK that doesn't have a valid pet passport it has to go into 6 months' quarantine at the expense of the importer before being allowed beyond customs. I know we couldn't do 6 months for people but the financial and boredom cost of 2-3 weeks locked in a hotel room with no opportunity to leave said room should be enough to make people have the vaccine so as to avoid it.

I honestly don’t understand why people ask questions like this on here.

You have those who know and understand. Who follow the rules and understand the rationality behind it all.

And then there are the conspiracy theorist tin hat wearers with their google degrees!

let

foramen

I agree. It's mystifying. Like some reality show where we get to see who goes utterly bonkers and starts hitting all the red buttons.

@Linearpark

Of course the immune system of a healthy person can cope with whatever variants of the virus encountered: it doesn't need scientists, it just needs vitamins especially B/C/D and zinc.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Misinformation and a really stupid (as well as insensitive) thing to post.

i think borders should have been closed months ago, its late now but not too late, only way to keep virus`s out