WHO report: covid likely not from Wuhan

[PicsInRed]

Covid not from Wuhan, not there before December 2019 and may even have been imported into Wuhan/China in frozen food.

Definitely, 100% not from a lab but may have mutated bit by bit and crossed different animals and borders whilst doing so in order to reach the current covid we know and love.

So there ya go.

www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55996728

@Lweji I don’t believe there is a scientific committee completely independent of any governmental organisation (not just China). But until a completely independent scientific committee can say that this virus didn’t originate in China, I will continue believing it originated there and the Chinese government attempted to cover it up.

I don’t believe it was lab made, I don’t believe the Chinese government meant for a world wide pandemic to happen at all. China has proven themselves to be a country that doesn’t like folk to stick their nose in. They don’t like an audience into how their country is run nor what happens in it. I think they hoped to contain the virus and keep it secret. When it became obvious that they couldn’t contain it and it was pretty serious, they admitted there was a problem.

There shouldn’t be any shame in a virus originating in a specific place. Regardless of whether it was wet markets or not, it was something completely outside of human control. That virus would have found its way to people one way or another.

@Longdistance

WHO is probably in China’s pocket.

There's no 'probably' about it.

What a farce. Trump was correct - the WHO is a complete waste of time.

@AIMummy
The very same WHO who took months to declare a pandemic.

How many months? And when did you want them to declare a pandemic?
And what difference do you think that made?

lweji did you miss Taiwan (not allowed to be part of WHO) screaming for weeks about this virus and begging the WHO to take action?’

@Lweji I don’t believe there is a scientific committee completely independent of any governmental organisation (not just China). But until a completely independent scientific committee can say that this virus didn’t originate in China, I will continue believing it originated there and the Chinese government attempted to cover it up.

So, you will continue to believe whatever you want to believe because there is no possible truly independent scientific committee.

In any case, this committee is saying that it did probably originate in China. So, your point is...

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow Tue 09-Feb-21 19:17:36
lweji did you miss Taiwan (not allowed to be part of WHO) screaming for weeks about this virus and begging the WHO to take action?’

I am not sure what your point is and what action you think the WHO should or could have taken.

I think people completely overestimate the power of the WHO.

Ooh! I remember Connor Reed. He was on the radio a lot talking about his illness. He seemed like a chipper nice guy. RIP.

Does that mean China is supposed to be busy bumping off lots of "the first" foreign nationals who got COVID? What happened to the first French, the first Swedish, the first Japanese etc. foreign nationals who got it -- everyone must know lots of stories about them, right?

WHO has exactly the powers & authority (none, actually, they have no power to tell any country what to do) given to it by the national governments that contribute to it.  If you don't like WHO, that's because you don't like what your government decided to make WHO be like.

@lljkk

those of you who think it must be from the Wuhan lab * -- do you think that's because the Wuhan is super unusual in the world or the Chinese have unusually bad lab security, or especially nefarious desires to make nasty viruses?

I mean, why Wuhan and why now when it never happened at Harvard or John Hopkins or Norwich GMO labs?

*I ask because I enjoy creative fiction

The wuhan one was just unlucky. IF it was the lab.

I (stupidly perhaps) read about a load of human error issues with these biolabs..and the near disasters that have resulted, and it seems mistakes are not as uncommon as you would hope.

This article has haunted me since I read it actually.. www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/3/20/18260669/deadly-pathogens-escape-lab-smallpox-bird-flu

I don't think those thinking lab necessarily have to believe there was an evil plot, or it was on purpose/planned as is often made out. But an error, and a coverup? Not really THAT farfetched really.

"Scientists also revealed the novel coronavirus could have been circulating in regions outside Wuhan before the first reported cases of the outbreak."

I remember reading some research suggesting this a year ago but I can't find it. I think one of articles was looking at data from a outbreak of pneumonia somewhere else in the same province that could have been SARS-CoV-2. I think there was also some research that found that the prevalent strain in Wuhan was not the original strain, whereas it was elsewhere in China. There could be many reasons for that though.

I'm starting to like Trump

@7Days

Is it possible that it was circulating in rural populations at a low level, between the miners and the Wuhan outbreak? I think I heard that there was evidence of some degree of immunity among populations local to those bat caves, I suppose regular low level exposure to bat guano in fields or in sheds or whatever. (Not sure where I heard it, sorry, it was last year) And then mutated to be more contagious and got brought to an urban centre. Woukd China have tissue samples saved from people who died of pneumonia type illnesses over the last few years? Could they run serology (sp?) Tests on on locals or is it too late now after the pandemic?

I dont think I buy the packaging theory - weren't we all told we were lunatics for washing down our shopping, the surfaces weren't a major threat as the virus can only last so long. Probably longer than it would take to import foodstuffs.

The Wuhan lab is I think the only level4 biosecure lab of it's kind in China. It was working on bat coronaviruses. They did carry out gain of function experiments there. China is secretive and doesn't care much for human rights. Scientists draw different conclusions from the same data sets. The media likes clickbait. Govts like a calm populace. There are rings of influence and agenda pushing around the world that were not privy to but we know exist. The public arent in a position to independently assess genomic sequences. So don't smear people who think it doesnt add up. Theres a far cry from that to believing that Bill Gates wants to microchip us all and this is his fiendish way of doing it.

Well said!

@CoronaIsWatching

What do the WHO actually do? A bunch of overpaid so called experts giving their unwanted opinions. They didn't do a thing to help stop the Coronavirus pandemic.

You do have a point there. The WHO can help but does not have actual powers, certainly not over what individual countries decide.

The WHO provides technical and expert advice and guidance, basically. They do tend to be very conservative.

In the past they have been accused of scaremongering, which they would have again this time, if all countries had gone into strict lockdown and the virus had been erradicated early on. Alas, they did not, the WHO or most countries, and now they are being accused of doing nothing when in fact they can actually do very little.

Bloody advisory bodies going around giving advice! Who the hell do they think they are?!

lweji I find your posts remarkable and not in a good way.

The WHO were warned by Taiwan weeks before their official position as to how serious the new virus is. Countries dithered for weeks as a result. The WHO have refused to answer questions regarding the communications between them and China in December and January. They had a guy interviewed on Radio 4 about it and he simply couldn’t answer.

The WHO has been complicit in it the whole time - either through negligence or something more sinister. As I said, Taiwan was on the ball and begged the WHO and the world to take note.

It’s all extremely odd. Cheers me up that people actually trust the WHO and think it’s all above board

I have not seen where the virus was first sequenced, but has anyone stopped to consider that the virus was first identified and sequenced in Wuhan because that's where the high tech, expert virus lab is?
If patients showed up elsewhere, they'd just be treated as any pneunomia and nobody would have cared if some died.

I'm actually a big China critic in many aspects. And I know that they will have tried to keep a lid on it until they decided they had to. Even the official announcement of the new virus on New Year's Even looks like burying bad information, typical of more than one government, btw.

So, my take on the origin of the virus is not at all clouded by any idealised version of the Chinese government at all.

They are so damn sneaky, I wouldn't trust a single word they say. Their aim is world domination for the Communists - surely everybody knows that?

@Lweji well yes, that’s kind of the point with beliefs. I will also take widely shared scientific agreement for which there is well documented fact that China is a country that would prefer the rest of the world to keep their noses out and that they attempted to cover it up. But my beliefs are wildly misjudged aye? I don’t understand what your problem is if we’re both in agreement that the virus originated in China and wasn’t lab made?

The first Brit who contracted covid in wuhan got it in Nov. He appeared on this morning. Search for First Brit to Contract Coronavirus Reveals His Experience | This Morning

I thought China's aim was to be rich & powerful.
Just like Trump's aim for USA
Or Putin's aim for Russia
Or Bolsonaro's aim for Brazil...

BoJo & Macron quite happy to chase influence & power for their countries, too.

Isn’t China the biggest funder of the WHO?

Go figure. The fact that the Wuhan institute of virology was not only testing variants of Coronaviruses but also establishing ones with vector capabilities to act as carriers for weapons of a biological nature with pandemic potential........but the WHO says not. Ok then, that’s that sorted.

The very fact that they even investigated the hypothesis of it originating from the lab proves that there's some truth to this. Also they said it was 'extremely unlikely' and if you watch the press conference or read the report the reason they say it's unlikely is:

Because the security of the lab would not allow it and they didn't see any reports or evidence that the Covid virus ever existed in the lab. That's all they're basing it on.

So WHO visits the Wuhan lab over a year after it was disclosed and don't think the lab may have changed security protocol or gotten rid of evidence in that time.... Excellent investigation right there.

Also they have said they don't even know if it's animal to animal or through frozen food or what animal! Safe to say they know nothing and so anything is possible. Given they haven't conclusively ruled out the lab, I still believe it came from the lab.

Peter Daszak one of the investigators also has ties to the Wuhan lab in his research and funding.... so much for lack of bias! The whole thing is a joke.

And essentially the entire global economy (except China) has been toppled and we haven't a clue what has caused this virus. I personally find that terrifying and a bit sinister. No one really understand China's slow influence over the world as it's so subtle and more clever than dropping bombs and waging war. You only have to see how half the infrastructure projects in the world (particularly resource heavy areas like Africa and the Middle East) are being funded by them which affords control. So I don't trust anything coming out of China. And don't think we'll ever know where it's come from.

@lljkk

those of you who think it must be from the Wuhan lab * -- do you think that's because the Wuhan is super unusual in the world or the Chinese have unusually bad lab security, or especially nefarious desires to make nasty viruses?

I mean, why Wuhan and why now when it never happened at Harvard or John Hopkins or Norwich GMO labs?

*I ask because I enjoy creative fiction

😀 great post. Thank you.

They’ll never tell the truth, and the WHO has always taken care to flatter and fawn over the Chinese regime since this started, so that’s that.

They flatter and fawn over every government.

They didn't even criticise Trump when he defunded them, they just wished him well and looked forward to continuing good working relationships with US scientists.

Likewise they have never criticised Bolsonaro even though they can be in no doubt that he is dangerously insane, instead they just praise the state level government of Brazil and the hardworking health workers and scientists on the ground.

Likewise they have never criticised Putin, even when directly asked what they had to say about Russia hiding their true death rates, instead they just explained the benefits, for all countries, of keeping accurate data.

I think what a lot of people don't get is that WHO doesn't have any real power. If they piss a country off, that country can just say 'fuck you' and stop co-operating and there's nothing WHO can do about it. They can't force their way in anywhere, they don't have an army, they don't have the power to impose sanctions. All they have is diplomacy.

They know China is secretive and has a history of covering up disease outbreaks. They also know they wouldn't stand a snowflake's chance in hell of getting into China to investigate, even to the small extent that China has permitted, or of getting China to share any information with them, if they were not unfailingly polite and diplomatic. Even so, it took months and months before they were permitted access.

This article is quite old now but it's very useful background for anyone trying to understand why WHO operate in the way that they do:

www.theguardian.com/news/2020/apr/10/world-health-organization-who-v-coronavirus-why-it-cant-handle-pandemic