Are teachers more at risk from covid?

[notevenat20]

Did anyone listen to More or Less discuss this?

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000rvjr

What do you think?

The link isn't working for me, but wondered if you'd seen this english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

It does work for me. Does it work for anyone else?

It is the episode called "Teachers, Test & Trace and Butterflies"

I don't understand how anyone couldn't believe this

Highly contagious virus, teenagers who are not great at masks/hand washing, teenagers who touch each other all the time, cramped corridors where you can't get out the way of each other...

And 1280 of them plus a 100 staff in my DH's school

Saw this on another thread - really scary stuff www.msn.com/en-gb/health/familyhealth/scientists-say-children-should-be-vaccinated-against-coronavirus/ar-BB1djTXt?ocid=msedgdhp

Are teachers more at risk of catching covid than the general population? Yes, stands to reason. Hundreds of direct contacts a week with thousands of indirect contacts in crowded spaces with little ventilation (or non at all).

Are teachers more at risk of dying than non-teachers? Probably not. Much depends on age, underlying conditions etc and in many schools these days, there is a younger than ever before average age of staff. Viral load is the other key factor, of course, and I'm no scientist so couldn't comment on whether covid caught in a classroom is more likely to be via a high viral load than a low one.

Are teachers more at risk of catching covid than the general population? Yes, stands to reason. Hundreds of direct contacts a week with thousands of indirect contacts in crowded spaces with little ventilation (or non at all).

What jobs are you comparing them to in the "general" population?

It's all in the radio programme!

I agree with PP as it stands to reason that the more contacts you have, then the likelihood of catching it increases. Agree about the lack of ventilation, masks and social distancing increasing risks as it is an airborne highly contagious virus. Hopefully, for the majority of school staff, the risk of death will be low but there is still a risk of long Covid and this is difficult to predict who will get this. Does viral load play a part in this? Viral load would be high with an infected person in an unventilated classroom. There is also a risk of being very ill with Covid and requiring hospital treatment.

OP what is the purpose of this thread? Getting schools to reopen more quickly? Discussing risk mitigation needed in schools? Reassuring school staff?

It’s a great theoretical discussion but I don’t want to be the person to have to put it to the test. Neither do I want Long Covid even if I am not more likely to die (if you actually believe that data). Teaching is a job. A job which can be done from home like so many others right now. Alternatively, give me the vaccine so I can return to class teaching. For me, it is going to be one or the other. I am not a sprightly 27-year-old teacher and won’t be taking the risk.

Yes I listened to the radio programme - really interesting and certainly put my mind at rest. Put then schools weren’t closed to protect teachers they were closed to prevent community transmission.

I actually heard the programme OP, which seems to be what you're asking but everyone is ignoring! I thought their breakdown seemed thorough and was (as the wife of a teacher) pretty reassuring. I thought the discussion of the flaws with the NASWUT was pretty damning.

Yes I agree @Hardbackwriter. They’re my union and I think their figures were very flawed.

It's obvious without even thinking about it. I don't know why some people are still questioning this.

I’m not reassured and will want a vaccine before I return. It isn’t much to ask really.

If everyone else is reassured, it should be even easier for those who aren’t to be given the vaccine.

I wouldn't say we're at more risk if getting a worse illness from it but depending on the sort of teaching we do we are more likely to catch it.

I'm sen and I've been offered the vaccine (I can't have it due to allergies) because we are being put alongside carers etc so yes we especially due to the nature of our work are more likely, than a mainstream teacher for example (no ppe, close physical contact etc )

However, one thing I do not get is that if we in SEN, because we don't use face coverings (for communication purposes), no ppe, physical contact and personal care are being offered the vaccine..... Why aren't nursery staff? Because they do the same thing as us surely - no PPE, personal care, phsyical contact with little ones. My students are older and have more behaviour issues yes but I can't see what the difference between what I do, like, risk wise, and what my DD2s nursery workers do.... That doesn't seem fair to me

I love More or Less. It's such a great program and has really been good at laying out the facts during this pandemic.

By the way, OP, you'll get people who are furious at you for even suggesting that teachers might not be at extremely high risk - the threads about the ONS study suggesting that their risk of death was much lower than many occupations were... unpleasant. I don't know why so many people are so attached to the idea that they're at really high risk and why they're angry rather than reassured by any data that suggests this isn't the case, but they really are.

Teachers were angry because we can see what is happening around us. I have 2 dead colleagues in my school, 1 in next nearest and 2 in me one - unless you're a medic I don't know any other profession that has a statistics like that. I know several long term covid sufferers, one a 19 year old, one a 16 year old who now needs a lung transplant and several colleagues who are still suffering from fatigue. We are angry but reassured as we know what we have lived through. Using data from March to October would show that teachers were no more at risk. From Sept to Dec the one bit of research said they were 333% more likely to catch covid. Sorry if that doesn't fit with the narrative.

And I can't type. Walking dogs 🐕

I’m not being unpleasant hardbackwriter. Quite simply, I do not believe your data, I am in my late 40s and people I know have died or are suffering long Covid. I want to go to work (if I am vaccinated) but if I am not vaccinated, I won’t be going when schools open. No doubt someone will soon express their faux concern for my mental health. I am taking my physical and mental health very seriously as no one else will. . Not every teacher feels like me but if enough do, your children will be relying on quite a few supply teachers. Give those teachers who want it the bloody vaccine. If you don’t, then great.

@mumsneedwine it’s really worth listening to the programme because it challenged that 333% figure and took it apart. It’s very misleading. Lies, damn lies and statistics.

Yes I did,really interesting, I love more or less.
I think they were saying looking at data closely ( data from march-april and sept- dec when reported cases were contracted before lockdowns and schools were open) Teachers had only a very slight increase of covid cases compared to the general population and that there were other ( non healthcare) occupations that had much higher infection rates.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones the other poster is talking about deaths.

It ignores hospitalisations were people don't die and long covid.

The figures for hospitalisations over a period was shown in the press conference, but no-one knows who will suffer from long covid.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones

I’m not being unpleasant hardbackwriter. Quite simply, I do not believe your data, I am in my late 40s and people I know have died or are suffering long Covid. I want to go to work (if I am vaccinated) but if I am not vaccinated, I won’t be going when schools open. No doubt someone will soon express their faux concern for my mental health. I am taking my physical and mental health very seriously as no one else will. . Not every teacher feels like me but if enough do, your children will be relying on quite a few supply teachers. Give those teachers who want it the bloody vaccine. If you don’t, then great.

Considering everyone has to send their kids to be taught by us I don't see why anyone would think a teacher shouldn't be vaccinated. Stick to your guns and look after yourself. I've been happy to work / not sheild (am CEV) in SEN but I totally support any colleague, SEN or mainstream if they don't wish to. Stay strong, this is fucking hard.