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Are teachers more at risk from covid?

284 replies

notevenat20 · 03/02/2021 20:01

Did anyone listen to More or Less discuss this?

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000rvjr

What do you think?

OP posts:
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6
motherrunner · 05/02/2021 07:10

Don’t make schools safe, don’t give teachers the vaccine but stop bloody moaning about home schooling and don’t be surprised when your children are being ‘taught’ by 21-year-old cover supervisors.

Totally agree.
Am a mid-40s teacher. Am resigned to the fact will be back in as usual in a few weeks and an under no illusion that a vaccine will be coming my way soon. This last year has broken me and I have no ‘fight’ left. I am just waiting to catch it. I don’t think I’ll die but I worry about being seriously ill for a long time. If that is the case I will not be hurrying back to work until I am 100% well. Those pupils - especially my exam groups - can have a cover supervisor who has a ‘C’ is English and Maths - getting them through their course.

motherrunner · 05/02/2021 07:10

*not be

Rowenasemolina · 05/02/2021 07:15

The crucial question with teachers is not how many of them catch it, but how many people could they potentially pass it on to.

Standing directly in front of 32 people, speaking loudly to them for long periods, Add in inadequate social distancing and Ventilation.

No other job puts you in the position of potentially infecting 100+ people a day.

Armi · 05/02/2021 07:17

@motherrunner

Don’t make schools safe, don’t give teachers the vaccine but stop bloody moaning about home schooling and don’t be surprised when your children are being ‘taught’ by 21-year-old cover supervisors.

Totally agree.
Am a mid-40s teacher. Am resigned to the fact will be back in as usual in a few weeks and an under no illusion that a vaccine will be coming my way soon. This last year has broken me and I have no ‘fight’ left. I am just waiting to catch it. I don’t think I’ll die but I worry about being seriously ill for a long time. If that is the case I will not be hurrying back to work until I am 100% well. Those pupils - especially my exam groups - can have a cover supervisor who has a ‘C’ is English and Maths - getting them through their course.

Agree.
Frodont · 05/02/2021 07:31

I had covid last year, I'm 55, it was like a nastyish flu, I was back jogging a month after. I'm a bit overweight, no sign of long covid. This is my experience of most people I know who have had it. Teachers should be allowed to wear masks and stay at the front of the classroom, it's silly if they aren't allowed to do that. But there is no need to be 'terrified'

notevenat20 · 05/02/2021 07:31

No other job puts you in the position of potentially infecting 100+ people a day.

This shows one difficulty with the position being taken by some teachers. The factual claim is clearly wrong but also suggests a self image of exceptionalism that makes it hard to sympathise with the very real fears that teachers have. Much better to acknowledge that huge numbers of people, teachers and non teachers, have fears and concerns driven by covid. Then you can focus on those aspects that are specific to teachers. Just as all sorts of workers have specific concerns. But to say that teachers suffer uniquely is just very bad PR.

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 05/02/2021 07:33

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/04/concerns-raised-over-queue-jumping-as-phe-workers-given-covid-vaccine

But let's just mention the teachers, eh?

MarshaBradyo · 05/02/2021 07:38

I think it’s hard if you feel terrified.

Everything is likely to lift before I get vaccine. It may mean I get it. I don’t particularly want it but I’m going to participate in going out etc rather than stay in until I do

valentinescmalentine · 05/02/2021 07:44

Some of the Teachers (other school staff are available) especially on here do nothing but mention themselves and it really is getting totally ridiculous.

Meanwhile most other keyworkers who are in reality more at risk are getting on with the day job.

The Pandemic has been with us for almost a year and there has been plenty of time to sort out Online education provision plus regular testing.

Wear a mask if you want to. Wash your hands and open a window.

But please stop making decisions that negatively impact on a lot of other people including their dc even if only because you are just not helping your own case at all.

Piggywaspushed · 05/02/2021 07:45

What decisions?

MrsHamlet · 05/02/2021 07:45

@Frazzled6

Interesting that it's teachers using the Barts link and booking jabs as health or social care staff.. Same happening in Manchester!
I think what you meant to say was "I'm appalled that those lazy, work shy lefty teachers are trying to game the system" wasn't it?
Armi · 05/02/2021 07:50

@valentinescmalentine

Exactly what decisions do you think teachers are making? We don’t make decisions- we are instructed by SLT who are instructed by the government. I do my job as directed by my line manager. Do you think we’re all free-wheeling and doing whatever we please?

EmmanuelleMakro · 05/02/2021 07:50

It's obvious without even thinking about it. I don't know why some people are still questioning this
Thank god for Tim Harford! Posts like this (especially if from teachers) make More or Less essential listening. People who put anecdote over data should not be teaching!
Maybe rationality should be part of the recruitment process.
I am teacher with a 6th form tutor and make this podcast required listening for them because it challenges ‘gut feel’ ‘instinct’ that leads irrational societies to witch burning and scapegoatery.
I have posted elsewhere that my LA sent out an info gathering firm yesterday to schools to get contact details of teachers willing to take the vaccine early if the gvt gives the go-ahead ie they can rapidly contact to get moving. They asked for where in a range of locations we would go for it.
Interestingly, they also separately asked if ww would be willing to go to a named hospital in the locality. I heard later that this hospital had a high level of ‘no shows’ so I wonder of people opting in through this list will get calls offering spares in the interim.

valentinescmalentine · 05/02/2021 07:55

[quote BustopherPonsonbyJones]@Hardbackwriter
The issue is that your opinion is irrelevant if YOU are not expected to work in schools. If WE don’t feel safe and use OUR unions and/or other options to either stay away from school until WE feel safe or WE are given the vaccine, then the decision is OURS. I chose to ignore your data and focus on what I know (having seen and experienced it) to inform my decision. Your opinion won’t stop me taking action based on my assessment - but my decision will impact your child’s education.[/quote]
For those asking about decisions I was referring to this post on this thread.

Stickytreacle · 05/02/2021 08:00

"Wear a mask if you want to. Wash your hands and open a window."

and what about those teachers and t/a's who aren't allowed masks, can't leave the classroom to wash hands, and don't have opening windows in the classroom? The reality of being in school is quite different to the images portrayed on tv.

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 05/02/2021 08:01

Frodont - I am pleased it was just a nasty cold for you. It isn’t for everyone. Please read posts by @Abraxan to see what can happen. Teachers really aren’t making decisions. If I did make decisions, everyone would wear masks in schools, we would be on rotas and ventilation would be top notch. Or I would be making sure that teachers were vaccinated.

Anyway, off to to get on with my day job now 🙂

valentinescmalentine · 05/02/2021 08:03

@Stickytreacle

"Wear a mask if you want to. Wash your hands and open a window."

and what about those teachers and t/a's who aren't allowed masks, can't leave the classroom to wash hands, and don't have opening windows in the classroom? The reality of being in school is quite different to the images portrayed on tv.

That is not every school though is it.

Denying all dc an effective education for months on end because of how the situation might be in some schools is not an acceptable situation.

Piggywaspushed · 05/02/2021 08:03

Well, that's one individual and it is up to her. Same as any worker in any workplace. You can't tell an individual not to do something because it affects other people, I am afraid.

This is a huge problem in lots of public service roles, that people are somehow not supposed to put themselves first so struggle on with physical and MH issues because of guilt. Before the pandemic this was a well known issue within the teaching profession who were cited as having some of the highest stress levels of any profession. Why this would have become less of an issue in general high stress times is beyond me. And it is more likely, actually, to impact your DC if they are being taught by a desperately unhappy teacher. It sounds to me like bustopher definitely does need to take some time away.

There is no doubt in my mind that the so called covid secure classrooms were pretty poor places to teach in, and be educated in form September to December. sadly, the government doesn't look interested in changing anything.

82% of teachers in a large survey last week said they had seem a fellow collegaue crying in the last term. 82%. That should worry people.

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 05/02/2021 08:04

@valentinescmalentine
Spotted this as I posted. Surely you aren’t telling me that I can’t fight for my own safety and/or notice in if I want? You expect me to make decisions which suit you and put me in danger? Really?

IloveJKRowling · 05/02/2021 08:17

That is not every school though is it.

Name me a school which has real social distancing, small class sizes, masks and adequate ventilation, because I don't know any. These are the top things the scientists say schools should be doing to prevent spread of covid.

I knew schools who did this in June/July with extra funding for extra TAs. Very successfully. With better educational outcomes as well as no no outbreaks.

But not since Sept.

MarshaBradyo · 05/02/2021 08:18

To be fair we had a very luck run Sept to Dec with one case. And community cases were much higher.

Abraxan · 05/02/2021 08:52

@Frazzled6

It was on the news Teachers have been using an NHS staff link to book the vaccine jabs. It probably isn't just teachers but the news mentioned teachers.

The Manchester link was even posted on mumsnet yesterday.

Some teachers are eligible - those in special schools if I remember rightly. It could well be those using it perhaps.

I don't agree with anyone jumping the priority lists.

I'm group 6 and won't be jumping any queues. I'll wait til my group is called. In the meantime I'm likely to be back in work once schools open again to all - for my year groups, quite possible early March. Unlikely to have been vaccinated by then so fingers crossed for some immunity now as I'm not sure my health can deal with it again!

Abraxan · 05/02/2021 09:00

Teachers have the ability to work from home right now and still get paid.

All but ONE member of our staff are working IN school with classes of 40-50% every day, except for their PPA time, which they are now allowed to do from home - mainly for tech reasons to be honest and the need for quiet to record lessons. This has been the case since Easter last year during the lockdowns.

Granted that I am indeed working from home. My health and my role means wfh is the better option. But don't worry about me being paid - I'm currently doing longer hours than I ever do in normal situations. And yes, I'm in MN right now - but I was working til late last night, I was up very early addressing school stuff this morning so I'm currently talking a breakfast break. As a HLTA (qualified teacher but working currently as a HLTA) I'm only paid for certain hours but have consistently worked many more hours in excess every week through lockdowns including 3 full weeks of my holidays last year and at least half a day every weekend outside of holidays. So, to be fair I'm earning every single penny of my salary despite wfh.

Oh and fwiw - lots of people around me are also able to wfh full time and get paid right now. Most of my friends (non teacher/school staff) are doing just that. Is it also annoying that they're still be paid?

Piggywaspushed · 05/02/2021 09:01

The news story made it very clear that the teachers thought the invitation was genuine.
Everyone had read about leftover vaccines so I can see I would take it up if I had that invite!

I posted upthread about PHE staff being bussed 20 miles to 'jump the queue' . No tutting about that.

sherrystrull · 05/02/2021 09:06

@valentinescmalentine

Some of the Teachers (other school staff are available) especially on here do nothing but mention themselves and it really is getting totally ridiculous.

Meanwhile most other keyworkers who are in reality more at risk are getting on with the day job.

The Pandemic has been with us for almost a year and there has been plenty of time to sort out Online education provision plus regular testing.

Wear a mask if you want to. Wash your hands and open a window.

But please stop making decisions that negatively impact on a lot of other people including their dc even if only because you are just not helping your own case at all.

Absolutely so much misinformation to pick apart here.

What decisions?
What about teachers that aren't allowed to wear a mask or work in classrooms with windows that don't open?

All the posts from teachers I see don't show them only thinking of themselves. They are always empathetic to other key workers such as nurses and supermarket staff and the risks they face everyday. Explaining the risks we personally face as a profession doesn't mean we don't think of others as well.