Forcing vaccination

[Peaceiseveryrhing]

Just read this on the Beeb

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55718553

Personally, I think it's outrageous that employees may insist on vaccination and airlines preventing travel.

A communistic approach!

Laws can be amended and they shall be no doubt this is being worked on as has been for down town

You choose not to be vaccinated there will be restrictions

It's so very bizarre how some people are so against vaccines, yet willfully accept all other forms of medical intervention.

Broken a leg? - Yes please doctor, pump me full of morphine, put me to sleep and fix that bone nice and straight.

Heart attack? - Fuck yeah, cut me open, stick in a stent and give me all those lovely drugs to keep me going.

Cancer? - Sure doc, chemotherapy, radiotherapy, imImmunotherapy, surgery I don't care, just help me fight this.

Vaccinate against a preventable disease? - ewwwwww no way am I sticking that shite in my body! You guys are all quacks, my research shows that Dr Nick (discredited and stripped of his medical licence) wrote a paper 25 years ago saying they're bad and that's obviously true. Big pharma just want to control us.

I genuinely wouldn't have an issue with antivaxxers if they stuck their morals and refused all medical intervention. Its the hypocrisy that's annoying.

Incidently do the NHS not require health care professionals, like doctors and nurses, to be vaccinated against hepatitis (amongst other things) before they can work for them? I know the military definitely require people to be vaccinated against a whole load of nasties before they can enlist.

I wonder why @AStudyinPink and @GreenWillow haven't rallied rejected soldiers and nurses into a class action suit against the government for discrimination?

I have asked a question in legal matters about covid and employment etc.
When it comes to matters of the law, lawyers are the people best placed to know what, is actually what.

Laws can be amended and they shall be no doubt this is being worked on as has been for down town

We will see.

Buccanarab

I’m not an anti-vaxxer.

AlternativePerspective

And your opinion doesn’t alter the law.

@ Buccanarab especially when drugs such as chemotherapy have proven and possibly detrimental side effects.

But I’m guessing the difference is that these people think that “I need to be made better,” whereas if they don’t yet have COVID then they don’t believe it will ever happen to them.

I take a drug for my heart the potential side effects of which are: damage to the liver, damage to the thyroid, scarring on the lungs, increased sensitivity to sunlight.

But the benefit of the drug is that I am no longer in such severe atrial fibrillation that I am unable to function on a daily basis, and that I have managed to buy time away from the transplant list.

If the drug kills me tomorrow then at least I had a few years more than I otherwise would have.

I’m prepared to take the risk.

And if I catch COVID then all that work might have been for nothing.

Bring on the vaccine...

And it’s also interesting how the antivaxxers are keen for the elderly and the vulnerable to have it but they don’t want it because of the “potential risks.” So it’s ok to put the elderly and vulnerable at risk then? Just as long as antivaxx isn’t.

I read somewhere recently that one of the most prominent COVID conspiracy theorists in the UK has recently died from COVID. And now the rest are putting it about that he was killed off to stop him telling the truth.

@AStudyinPink

MN - we are in a pandemic. We don't need anti Vaxer's being given a platform.

I am capable of deciding things for myself. I don’t need anyone to decide what information I am permitted to be exposed to.

Sadly that doesn't apply to many people with less critical thinking abilities than you . There are a LOT of very very stupid people out there.

There are too many people on sm platforms who read some bonkers anti vax shite.. and take it as 'fact' .
Then start re-spouting the nonsense to others who also have insufficient brain power to work out what is fucking woo mumbo jumbo and what is scientific fact.

Then before long we have the bollox that is the government chipping people in the guise of a vaccination.. as a credible argument against vaccination in a pandemic.

Not only is it ridiculous and beyond daft.. but extremely dangerous to public health.

@AlternativePerspective

It is a fact that if you refuse the vaccine on the basis that “god will look after me,” and you contract COVID and pass it to someone who cannot have the vaccine for genuine reasons and they die then you are responsible for their death

Except that with or without the vaccine, you could still pass on covid. Unfortunate but true, there is no guarantee that the vaccine will stop infection and transmission.

I'm a bit shocked at all the people claiming to know the facts that don't even know the most basic essential facts

Sadly that doesn't apply to many people with less critical thinking abilities than you . There are a LOT of very very stupid people out there.

I don’t disagree. But - without casting aspersions on anyone at MNHQ - unless they have immunologists and epidemiologists on their staff, I am not sure they are qualified to divide the ‘facts’ from the ‘disinformation’.

Can't be dealing with anti vaxxers. We don't know the long term affects, no. But neither do we know the long term affects of contracting covid. I would rather have the vaccine and a normal life than worry about catching covid.

It is a fact that if you refuse the vaccine on the basis that “god will look after me,” and you contract COVID and pass it to someone who cannot have the vaccine for genuine reasons and they die then you are responsible for their death

And just no. Viruses are a fact of biology. They move from host to host without the intent of the host. We are not ‘responsible’ if others contract them. Even if we do not choose to ingest a particular medication. That’s our right.

If you want to live in a society with other people and enjoy various freedoms you have to accept the responsibility that comes with that. Saying it's blackmail is like saying we are being blackmailed into not committing crimes by telling us we'll go to jail. You have an individual right to not have the vaccine but you do not have the right to endanger other people on the basis of your choices.

Reminds me of this meme....

Can't be dealing with anti vaxxers. We don't know the long term affects, no. But neither do we know the long term affects of contracting covid. I would rather have the vaccine and a normal life than worry about catching covid. it’s the old “it won’t happen to me” mentality.

And people still seem to be of the belief that COVID is just like the flu.

TBH, anyone who says that has clearly never actually had the flu, because even flu is bloody awful and people die from it.

I am a flu survivor. I went from being able to swim 80 lengths of a swimming pool, walk several miles, exceptionally fit, to being collapsed on my kitchen floor, time on life support, then 2.5 years of absolutely no stamina, constant heart palpitations with atrial fibrillation, not being able to walk from my lounge to my kitchen without being breathless. Not being able to walk up the stairs without having to sit on the bed for 5 minutes after to get my breath back...

And now, even though I’ve had some interventions, one of which (a mitraclip) was only licenced for use in the UK at the end of 2018 and the long-term effects of which are still unknown, I have been told that I am on borrowed time before I will have to go on the list for a heart transplant. In fact I have an appointment at the transplant clinic next week to see how I am progressing.

From what I’ve read the long-term side effects of COVID are very similar to this.

So if you’re really not afraid of all that, then crack on.

We are not ‘responsible’ if others contract them

You won't accept that you are indirectly responsible by not even attempting to prevent it? Since you were such an advocate for preventing indirect discrimination then this can't be a hard concept.

AStudyInPink

There is precedence in law, in that you can be imprisoned for 5 years for reckless transmission of HIV. People are expected to take the necessary precautions to avoid putting others in danger.

@AlternativePerspective

Whether it’s the law or not doesn’t alter the facts.

It’s a fact that if you have a religious belief it is a belief only and not a proven fact.

It is a fact that if you refuse the vaccine on the basis that “god will look after me,” and you contract COVID and pass it to someone who cannot have the vaccine for genuine reasons and they die then you are responsible for their death.

But hey, hallelujah praise the lord!!!!”

I love how you think you are operating from facts and your beliefs have nothing to do with it. You believe life is important, you love your family, you believe people have a moral obligation to protect the public, you cant point to a single fact or provable material evidence of any of that and you think people who belief in God are confused. At least we admit life is about more than facts. I believe in God yes, in Gods authority and in non coercion of inherently free individuals. If you have to coerce your idea sucks, if you cant cope with difference you are inherently controlling. I believe that vaccines designed from abortion are morally compromised because you cant defend the principle of life in one area and destroy it in another. I believe I am an autonomous being who answers to God and not to Boris at the end of days. And I dont believe there is much wisdom, truth, kindness or compassion indicating Gods grace in these aggressive, manipulative fear driven arguments. These are all beliefs stemming from a protected religious characteristic. Protected because people with a better grasp of ethics and history than you made it law to let protect peoples beliefs from reactionary mobs. These laws created the society we just lost back in March. Not to covid but to bad policy. Public policy made without public participation, votes, lobbies, information, transparency, consultation and freedom to protest is bad public policy. You seem to be are a child of the Enlightenment and religiously adhere to principles of institutions and authority, science and meaning that you cant prove and dont seem to understand where handed to you, you didnt freely choose them. That is your God given right. And I would defend to the death your right to believe in that as Voltaire would say, because only God truly loves and only God can truly set you free.

@DuaneAgain

Look what happened at Disneyland where an unvaccinated American women resulted in smallpox spreading to four states and accounting for 12% of that year's infections. It's almost unheard of for people to catch smallpox nowadays and that is pretty much exclusively down the the vaccine

Curious, I have always understood that smallpox only exists in labs nowadays and they stopped vaccinating against it many's the long year ago.

You won't accept that you are indirectly responsible by not even attempting to prevent it?

No. I believe people have a right to put their own health first.

But why wouldn’t you want to be vaccinated? Do you want this to drag on for another few years?

I don't want to drag anything out. I just don't want to be vaccinated at present. If that means staying in the UK and not entering Greggs for a cheese pasty then .... meh, I 'll do it.

No. I believe people have a right to put their own health first.

So do I.

There is precedence in law, in that you can be imprisoned for 5 years for reckless transmission of HIV. People are expected to take the necessary precautions to avoid putting others in danger.

Aren’t they expected not to conceal a known infection? That isn’t the same thing. Nor is anyone required to take drugs they don’t want in this instance.

No. I believe people have a right to put their own health first

At least you are being honest about your selfishness I guess.

@AlternativePerspective

Can't be dealing with anti vaxxers. We don't know the long term affects, no. But neither do we know the long term affects of contracting covid. I would rather have the vaccine and a normal life than worry about catching covid. it’s the old “it won’t happen to me” mentality.

And people still seem to be of the belief that COVID is just like the flu.

TBH, anyone who says that has clearly never actually had the flu, because even flu is bloody awful and people die from it.

I am a flu survivor. I went from being able to swim 80 lengths of a swimming pool, walk several miles, exceptionally fit, to being collapsed on my kitchen floor, time on life support, then 2.5 years of absolutely no stamina, constant heart palpitations with atrial fibrillation, not being able to walk from my lounge to my kitchen without being breathless. Not being able to walk up the stairs without having to sit on the bed for 5 minutes after to get my breath back...

And now, even though I’ve had some interventions, one of which (a mitraclip) was only licenced for use in the UK at the end of 2018 and the long-term effects of which are still unknown, I have been told that I am on borrowed time before I will have to go on the list for a heart transplant. In fact I have an appointment at the transplant clinic next week to see how I am progressing.

From what I’ve read the long-term side effects of COVID are very similar to this.

So if you’re really not afraid of all that, then crack on.

I’ve come across loads of people who say they had flu for a day. I’ve had it once properly and that’s enough for me.