“No onesies please as it makes the children in school jealous”

[Lemons1571]

A message from the head of our primary. Please could all parents at home please ensure their primary children are fully dressed in day clothes ready for their class 9am zoom. No onesies. Apparently the children actually allowed to go to school are annoyed seeing their classmates lounging at home in onesies / pj’s / loungewear.

Ummm, I’m sorry, I thought I heard you issuing instructions on what I must / must not do in my own house. What possible authority does a school have to do this? Kids forced out of face to face education. Being shown some lovely examples of the artwork done by the kids at school over zoom with the caveat “oh don’t worry I know you can’t do this at home”.

Read the room ffs. Just another request to put other people’s children before my own. As it happens my primary child gets dressed of his own accord, but if he wanted to wear a onesie then quite frankly anyone else’s opinion can fuck off.

Physically going to school = uniform worn as per school rules.
Physically barred from school = my house my rules.

No doubt I’m overreacting but it annoyed me!

*And there we have it, as soon as anyone points out that some proposals further entrench disadvantage this comes up in some form eg 'race to the bottom,lowering standards, penalizing the advantaged children'.

because that's exactly what you are saying!

If it entrench disadvantages, work on those! Fill THAT gap, don't try to reduce it by lowering the level for anyone.

It makes so little sense on any level

propose a superficial/'easy' solution that excludes disadvantaged pupils
I am not the minister for education, I am a parent! I am fighting for my kids, it's not my job to revolutionize the system.

On this example, the pupils AT SCHOOL are nowhere near disadvantaged by others assisting to a live lesson, this is absolute nonsense.

people challenge the so called solution because it doesn't alleviate educational inequality
so what is YOUR solution for the children who are home? Ignoring them is not acceptable I am afraid.

On a personal level, I have different discussions with the school about my older ones.

They just happen to be less bothered about live lessons as we have a private arrangement between us: if no live lesson, they can sleep as late as they want provided the work is done that day and they have some exercise outside.
That's my private solution and nobody's business, but because they don't feel abandoned by the school, I don't need to fight their corner on that point.

I am not going to sit down and accept that a school would refuse to look after children because another child would "miss out"
Well half the school is missing out by being kept home, so let's work on that.

I’m half and half here, I think everyone benefits from getting up and getting dressed as it puts us in the right frame of mind BUT I don’t think they should say it upsets the kids at school! My DS has to go to school as I work in a school and he’s often unhappy to go as his group doesn’t include his friends and he misses them like they miss school and their friends too, I also think he assumes kids at home are just playing on xboxes all day which isn’t the case 😂

Seth41
Not a problem. Even though I've always said schools have different challenges, before I changed schools I had some moments where I thought to myself 'I'm doing A B C and it's not that difficult'. Then I changed school. 😂

I still don't think it's that hard to use the assignment section on Microsoft Teams, but I've encountered some challenges that never came up in my previous school and I came to realise that even believing each school has its challenges didn't fully prepare me to appreciate them all.
It certainly never crossed my mind that we would need to send a member of IT support to a family to connect the school issued device to their wifi because nobody in the family knew how to use a laptop.

These are challenging times for everyone. Most people are doing their best.

If it entrench disadvantages, work on those! Fill THAT gap, don't try to reduce it by lowering the level for anyone.

Great. So a whistlestop summary of things that need fixing:

• insecure employment
• appropriate adult education programmes for those who have low education levels
• insecure housing
• substandard housing
• precarious employment and poor working conditions
• food poverty
• cycles of abuse and neglect
• areas of towns being routinely ignored by successive governments
• cuts to pastoral provision
• cuts to family support services that would be able to intervene and support families in need
• cuts to CAMHS
• The SEN systems need reforming so it isn't a battle that only the more educated and engaged parents have the time and resources to fight for what their child needs
• every child needs the right to a qualified teacher again because they haven't had that for a while
• there needs to be enough subject specialist in all schools
• reforms of accountability measures that create perverse incentives to target the children who make the database look better
• reforms to school inspections so that school improvement is driven by long term reform and progress instead of short termism that fails some children
• more value placed on vocational pathways

I could go on. It's an interesting area.

It's such a shame that none of those are solved by cutting and pasting what private schools are doing.

I do hope you lobby your MP to raise these issues though and express your concern about educational inequality though, seeing as you apparently care about the students.

Yeah, we get it, you don't like live lessons. Of course state schools can't replicate what private schools do, that's why parents pay a fortune for them.

They sure as hell aren't having a day off for baking every week though!

@Frodont

Yeah, we get it, you don't like live lessons. Of course state schools can't replicate what private schools do, that's why parents pay a fortune for them.

They sure as hell aren't having a day off for baking every week though!

Well... In the first lockdown my DDs private school did vastly less than the state schools I worked in or knew of. Vastly less. Many of us complained. This time round is much better but if the first time was anything to go by the money pays argument doesn't always work. There was a thread first time round where plenty people said the same thing about other private schools .

I'm sure they aren't all the same which is why made sure my dcs went to an excellent one. It's definitely not worth paying a cut price fee for a cut price service.

Yeah, we get it, you don't like live lessons
I'm actually bored of you deliberately missing the point.

I have zero issue with live lessons. They are a tool available for remote learning and schools should be free to design their remote provision based on research evidence and their knowledge of school contexts. I teach live lessons to my students and think the way my school has mixed provision works well. I just don't think they are the be all and end all, and I don't think the way some posters on here fixate on them being essential is reasonable.

Either you're being deliberately goady or you aren't reading properly.

Then again, I also repeatedly said that I don't think students should have a day off timetable and all you did for several posts was go on and on about how state schools shouldn't have a day off.

Nowt as queer as folk
🤷‍♀️

Then again, I also repeatedly said that I don't think students should have a day off timetable and all you did for several posts was go on and on about how state schools shouldn't have a day off.

Nowt as queer as folk
Argh. Reply for another post has pasted here. Ignore this bit.

Frodont
We seem to be on two threads and on both of the threads you are accusing me of wanting state students have days off (despite at least half a dozen posts from me saying otherwise), and then claiming I hate live lessons (despite me saying that I think live lessons are one tool, not the gold standard and that schools should be free to design provision to match their context).

I think it's probably best to agree to ignore each other now as all that's happening is me repeating the same fairly simple points,only for you to claim black is white.

I do admire your ability to turn 'I have no problems with live lessons' into 'you don't like live lessons'. It is impressive mental gymnastics.

Ok fair enough its just that my daughters secondary school in midlands states its an issue and cameras are off i wonder why it varies?

Don't be disingenuous

It would be like stating that some families cannot afford trainers for PE days. (true) and decide to stop PE for everybody. You are not being stupid, you help those families.

What did I do personally? nothing much as I am busy working full time AND homeschooling 4 kids. I still managed to be involved with various local businesses and groups to finance and sources laptops to give to families who don't have any.

I don't waste my time about grand ideas about the inequalities of the world or conditions of the work places which have nothing to do with anything, I am being practical and looking for solutions to help the current extra-ordinary situation, at my own tiny level.

Again, I am not campaigning to stop PE from primary school because deprived families struggle to buy the kit. It's exactly the same about denying live lessons who would cheer up kids because someone would miss out - bearing in mind the vulnerable are at school anyway.

No need to make goady comments about not caring or fake caring for the disadvantaged children when as a parent, my job and responsibility is to fight for my own kid first. And you don't need to be a parent to know that the race to the bottom is as stupid as it is ridiculous and unhelpful.

We have been told they need to dress appropriately so I would assume this means no onesies or PJs which is fine if it’s so that they are in the right mindset and it’s about standards. But to put the rule in place so as not to make the children in school jealous - that’s thoughtless. The children at home are quite often lonely and missing their friends - the reason given is pretty insensitive. I’d be a bit p-off too I think.

I’m with you op! My house my rules! Within reason of course. They don’t wear uniform but they get changed out of their pyjamas after breakfast as normal. It is one of the positives of online learning. There is no uniform that needs ironing!

I think it's reasonable to dress appropriately for online lessons. It shows that you are taking them seriously, and shows respect for those in school that have to wear uniform.
I'm a music teacher and we have to be very strict about safeguarding, and that includes stopping the lesson if the student appears to be in pyjamas. I'd include onesies in that.
YABU OP
(although not BU for wanting to make your life easier)

No need to make goady comments about not caring or fake caring for the disadvantaged children when as a parent, my job and responsibility is to fight for my own kid first. And you don't need to be a parent to know that the race to the bottom is as stupid as it is ridiculous and unhelpful
It IS fake caring when poster claim to care about disadvantaged pupils and then repeatedly push for things that actively exclude the very pupils they claim to care about.

I'm not saying people have to put all other kids before their own, I'd just like it if people stopped trying to use disadvantaged students when what they actually mean is "my children would benefit from X".

Now there is absolutely nothing wrong in saying "my children would prefer more live lessons / fewer live lessons / more paper work packs/ a lighter timetable / more work / more online material / more downtime to pursue other interests / insert other preference here". There's nothing wrong with saying "the work provided is too easy / too difficult" or "my child finds a full day on Teams exhausting/ my child thrives on the structure of a full online timetable". All of those views are entirely valid and none of them involve saying 'but think of the disadvantaged children' as if it's some sort of trump card to push personal preferences.

Pointing out that much of what the live lesson obsessives are pushing for obviously excludes disadvantaged students isn't a race to the bottom. That's just as daft as on a thread today, can't remember if it was this one or another one, I was essentially accused of wanting to widen educational inequality because instead of blindly parroting 'live lessons are crucual',I said that tackling educational inequality is more complicated tha live lessons and copying what independent schools are doing.

It's funny to think that the likes of the Sutton Trust have countless experts who spend years researching educational inequality, and yet a handful of posters on mumsnet seem to think they have the answers.

It’s common decency and good manners to be properly prepared. It’s also good to teach children to show respect.

YABU!

I get it, that it can be annoying for them at school. But my son hates having to do his s work.
So if waring a onesie, gets him sat and doing his school work. Then that's what it takes.
Luckily our school hasn't enforced this rule else's that would be, the straw that broke the camels back.

I find it hard to understand why there’s so much debate about this. I have a video call with clients tomorrow. I might wear my pyjamas and do the call from bed. After all, my house, my rules, right?

Of course, to do that would be absurd because although I’m sitting my spare room I AM AT WORK. OK, I don’t put formal office wear on but I get washed and get dressed. I don’t understand why that differs from home schooling.

My 8 year old wears onesies because he is more comfortable in them, he changes them everyday so they are clean and I am not going to force him to wear something in our home, his safe space, that he's not comfortable in. If we leave the house then he changes into day clothes and gets a onesie on when he gets home. I am not about to add an extra battle with him to our day and I wouldn't be complying with the rule if it was set. He doesn't do group zooms anymore just 1 to 1 as he couldn't cope with them but he was wearing onesies when he did due to his autism. As long as they are clean I don't see a problem with it. It also means less washing so more practical when there's already alot of extra work to be done in the day. My 9 year old will wear day clothes some days but I don't mind if he wants to wear a onesie as long as he gets his work done and teachers haven't yet complained about it.

I think asking for day clothes is reasonable, it's a polite way of saying your kids should be up, showered, dressed and ready to learn not just crawled out of bed

I totally agree with the OP