“No onesies please as it makes the children in school jealous”

[Lemons1571]

A message from the head of our primary. Please could all parents at home please ensure their primary children are fully dressed in day clothes ready for their class 9am zoom. No onesies. Apparently the children actually allowed to go to school are annoyed seeing their classmates lounging at home in onesies / pj’s / loungewear.

Ummm, I’m sorry, I thought I heard you issuing instructions on what I must / must not do in my own house. What possible authority does a school have to do this? Kids forced out of face to face education. Being shown some lovely examples of the artwork done by the kids at school over zoom with the caveat “oh don’t worry I know you can’t do this at home”.

Read the room ffs. Just another request to put other people’s children before my own. As it happens my primary child gets dressed of his own accord, but if he wanted to wear a onesie then quite frankly anyone else’s opinion can fuck off.

Physically going to school = uniform worn as per school rules.
Physically barred from school = my house my rules.

No doubt I’m overreacting but it annoyed me!

Iknowwhatudidlastsummer

I’m not sure whether you think a mixture of live lessons and set activities (accessible to all whether at home or in school) is a good thing or not.

Now is not the time to show off exciting group Art projects or team activities done by the children attending school - on school websites.
The work set should be accessible to all whether in school or at home. A mixture of taught lessons (zoom etc) and project work that students can complete in school or at home.

live lessons and the way they act like life chances are ruined by not having live lessons.

but that's not what I am talking about at all!

I am talking about their mental health, the need to keep them from feeling isolated and completely abandoned by the school.

They know their friends are at school having a normal day (not in all schools, we know) and they would just be given a few sheets of paper with no feedback instead.

It's not about their life chances, or whatever nonsense, it's about making their life a little bit less shit than it is. Of course they'll be fine either way (primary), but a mediocre approach is not good enough.

I'm more surprised/concerned the head felt the need to tell parents this.

I completely agree with Seth41
but I am not even arguing about that.

If your "live lesson" is just reading a book to little ones, and giving a virtual sticker for submitting a piece of work, it might not be doing much in term of education as such, but it does wonder to boost and cheer up the kids.

Perhaps you don’t regard live lessons as particularly critical because of the standard of live lesson that you deliver!
I don't view them as critical because at the moment the research across a range of schools doesn't suggest they are. I think they are one tool available to promote remote learning and that schools can, and should, design provision from their knowledge of their school contexts.

If you think you can make judgements about the quality of someone's teaching based on them pointing out that the current research base might be a bit more informed than posters on Mumsnet giving their opinion then that's a bizarre conclusion.

Iknowwhatudidlastsummer If the home provision is really poor then it needs reporting and it would encourage any parent in that situation to ask for the school's remote learning policy, look at the link I shared (I think it was this thread) and then complain.

One of our sessions a week is a purely pastoral catchup with our tutor group. It's lovely , but certainly by secondary most of our students are in touch with their friends through their own means. At primary I've seen some schools record a weekly assembly and share positives from students ons social media, and do phone calls to everyone. A live class catch up could be great, but it isn't the gold standard.
All I'm getting at is that the obsession with live lessons on here doesn't match what the evidence currently suggests, and maybe those people evaluating schools across a range of contexts know a bit more about it that those who aren't.

* I don't view them as critical because at the moment the research across a range of schools doesn't suggest they are*

How important they are is entirely teacher-quality dependent

* All I'm getting at is that the obsession with live lessons on here doesn't match what the evidence currently suggests*

What research?

And I can get your obsession with this research!

Personally I don't regard live lessons as critical as our doddery internet connection, less than a mile outside town (and using fastest provider) can't support them during working hours. Recorded videos use less bandwidth. And I can alternate which child is watching one, mixed with DH if necessary.

How important they are is entirely teacher-quality dependent
It's dependent on a range of factors, which is precisely why some posters going on about them being essential is silly.
There are a range of factors to consider when designing remote learning. Is it really that unreasonable to suggest schools should design remote provision using what the evidence says about remote learning and knowledge of their cohorts/contexts?

What research?
And I can get your obsession with this research!
You don't see why it makes sense for professions to look into what is effective instead of everything being driven by whatever random people on Mumsnet think it should be?

www.gov.uk/government/publications/whats-working-well-in-remote-education/whats-working-well-in-remote-education#remote-education-is-a-way-of-delivering-the-curriculum

educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/covid-19-resources/best-evidence-on-supporting-students-to-learn-remotely/

The 'I don't get why you care about research' highlights the problem. There are posters on here who are so wedded to live video lessons that they don't want to consider that it's more complex than their 'give us live video' opinion

can’t

I think kids will just get used to whatever they wear and it won't really matter after a while . It might be a bit of a novelty to be able to wear what they want initially but I think it would wear off after a while. I wfh and wear a fleece or jumper over my PJ's most days and wear that for zoom meetings too. Nobody sees from the waist down so who cares . Nobody knows if I have trousers and a top on under my fleece /jumper or not. I can concentrate perfectly well . I do however put a bit of make up on as I think my bare face would scare my colleagues way more than my attire! My boys are at 3rd level and out of choice they get dressed for lessons . Each to their own .

* The 'I don't get why you care about research' *

Did anyone say that?

I said I couldn’t get your obsession

I’ll read those links now.

Seth41
Not getting an obsession conveys a similar attitude. Surely it's fairly straightforward why any professional, not just teachers, might what to know about best practice and what works in their area? Sorry if I misunderstood you though.

I've changed me view on remote learning several times throughout the pandemic. To start with I had safeguarding concerns about jumping straight into live teaching without enough time to properly device strategy and set things up properly. Over time, schools found ways that work and my concerns in that area diminished. Some situations I think live works well, and I happily teach live lessons to my students. I have no beef with live lessons, just find the obsession with them on here to be bizarre. It particularly annoys me when +75% of the time there's a lot of posters pretending to care about disadvantaged students whilst proposing things that actively exclude disadvantaged students. When you spend your days working in an area of high deprivation, hearing people try to coopt very real struggles to justify furthering educational inequality is infuriating. Firstly, it's obvious most of those posters don't care about disadvantaged students. Secondly, even of we assume some do care, it's highly unlikely all the institutes working to reduce educational inequality would be wasting decades on this area if it was as simple as 'mumsnet mummylovestea183618 says (insert opinion here)'.

They are really interesting links.

Devise strategy

Opening line of your link re live lessons @LolaSmiles

* Some think that a live lesson is the ‘gold standard’ of remote education. This isn’t necessarily the case*

Of course it isn’t necessarily the case. Of the 18 live lessons my eldest gets, 16 are phenomenal. Engaging, stimulating and superb. 2 are... dull, passive, boring.

What’s different between the 16 and the 2.

One word. The teacher.

* Not getting an obsession conveys a similar attitude. *

Wrong.

“Not caring” and “obsession” are very different.

The former indicates giving no weight to something whatever. The latter indicates giving almost complete weight to something.

I recognise that live lessons per se aren’t the gold standard of remote learning.

It is live lesson PLUS high quality teacher that is the gold standard

just find the obsession with them on here to be bizarre.
what's so bizarre in acknowledging the benefit for children and their friends?
What's so bizarre in fighting to ensure the first lockdown will not be repeated, and to ensure that the children at home are not completely forgotten again?

Live lessons include the children in the class, so they are not missing out!

pretending to care about disadvantaged students
I didn't see any of that on the thread. Who are you referring to?

Disadvantaged and vulnerable children are at school here, so the live lesson is a complete moot point as far as they are concerned. (again, Primary).

Not having enough devices, a working environment or parents not comfortable with them is enough to qualify to send your children at school. At least here

When you spend your days working in an area of high deprivation, hearing people try to coopt very real struggles to justify furthering educational inequality is infuriating.

if you are trying to do something against educational inequality by bringing the whole system down and penalising the children who you judge are too "advantaged"
you are doing it wrong and your credential as an educator are very questionable.

Lockdown is worse if you don't get dressed, hi outside and do the bits of normal life you can do. You shouldn't be at online school in your pjs

Seth41
Teaching and learning absolutely matters.
A high quality teacher does not automatically equal an excellent video teacher. I've seen some brilliant classroom practitioners find the move to Teams challenging. They are not poor teachers because they haven't instantly mastered teaching remotely in a way that you consider suitably engaging. I've also seen great teachers take risks with new online platforms and it's fallen flat, and others have very simple lessons that work brilliantly.

As ever, often the right responses/answers are more complicated than the easy throwaway opinions.

I've done online live teaching in 2 schools. One I could run polls and forms, place assignments in the assignment folder, collect all work electronically, create automatically marking quizzes for instant feedback to students, have collaborative whiteboards (which I would save and put in their folders), and I had my students signed up to additional learning platforms that I could signpost them to. I could share links to videos on external sites with work to be completed between lessons and record voice feedback to students, knowing they'd all have personalised feedback before the following lesson.

At the other, barely 1/2 of students in the school would be online, every lesson at least 3 students had technological issues. The TA easily spends 30 minutes of each lesson on the phone to parents and students to talk them through things as basic as 'are you connected to wifi?'. At least 15 minutes of my lesson is taken up having to explain things because children arrive late as their sibling had the only appropriate device in the house and every device school had was already issued.To ensure that the students are accessing the curriculum, the technological demands need to be minimal and match up with paper copies of materials that I provide to each family so that no child is excluded. I call families every day if I haven't seen or heard from their child in a few days. Our school does home visits to collect work from those who can't engage online.

Have I suddenly become a worse teacher?I'm sure some on here would say so.🤷‍♀️

This is what I don't understand. Is it really that controversial to think live lessons are one tool in the remote learning toolbox, and that schools should design their provision around their contexts?

What’s different between the 16 and the 2.
One word. The teacher.

In my classroom I can - bowl over the dc with my wit, lead a really thoughtful group discussion ensuring everyone gets their turn, build in movement breaks for the dc who struggle to sit still, create interesting group tasks, set challenging written task and give support to anyone who needs it, quickly sense the "mood" of the room and go over something they don't get or move on when they are restless.
All while checking I remember the emails about Jill having lost her glasses and Jack's mum being in hospital and Steve being assessed for dyslexia.
Come and judge me on how well or otherwise I achieve all that.
Don't judge me on how "phenomenal" my live remote learning lessons are, a skill I have never had to use before and will hopefully never have to use again in a few months time.

if you are trying to do something against educational inequality by bringing the whole system down and penalising the children who you judge are too "advantaged" hmm
you are doing it wrong and your credential as an educator are very questionable
And there we have it, as soon as anyone points out that some proposals further entrench disadvantage this comes up in some form eg 'race to the bottom,lowering standards, penalizing the advantaged children'.

It really does highlight how little many people care about educational inequality when the discussion seems to be:

• claim to care about disadvantage
• propose a superficial/'easy' solution that excludes disadvantaged pupils
• people challenge the so called solution because it doesn't alleviate educational inequality
• claim those who accept educational inequality is complex are holding back the advantaged children and want to lower the bar

@LolaSmiles

Seth41 Teaching and learning absolutely matters. A high quality teacher does not automatically equal an excellent video teacher. I've seen some brilliant classroom practitioners find the move to Teams challenging. They are not poor teachers because they haven't instantly mastered teaching remotely in a way that you consider suitably engaging. I've also seen great teachers take risks with new online platforms and it's fallen flat, and others have very simple lessons that work brilliantly.

As ever, often the right responses/answers are more complicated than the easy throwaway opinions.

I've done online live teaching in 2 schools. One I could run polls and forms, place assignments in the assignment folder, collect all work electronically, create automatically marking quizzes for instant feedback to students, have collaborative whiteboards (which I would save and put in their folders), and I had my students signed up to additional learning platforms that I could signpost them to. I could share links to videos on external sites with work to be completed between lessons and record voice feedback to students, knowing they'd all have personalised feedback before the following lesson.

At the other, barely 1/2 of students in the school would be online, every lesson at least 3 students had technological issues. The TA easily spends 30 minutes of each lesson on the phone to parents and students to talk them through things as basic as 'are you connected to wifi?'. At least 15 minutes of my lesson is taken up having to explain things because children arrive late as their sibling had the only appropriate device in the house and every device school had was already issued.To ensure that the students are accessing the curriculum, the technological demands need to be minimal and match up with paper copies of materials that I provide to each family so that no child is excluded. I call families every day if I haven't seen or heard from their child in a few days. Our school does home visits to collect work from those who can't engage online.

Have I suddenly become a worse teacher?I'm sure some on here would say so.🤷‍♀️

This is what I don't understand. Is it really that controversial to think live lessons are one tool in the remote learning toolbox, and that schools should design their provision around their contexts?

Interesting and thought provoking post Thank you

send a message back about children in school making children at home jealous. I am also probably being unreasonable, but lockdown has short circuited my reasonable function and it occasionally gets stuck on bloody unreasonable and everybody in the fucking world is about to know it.