WHO urges Britain to pause covid jabs after treating the vulnerable

[Jay2020]

Link

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/who-urges-britain-to-pause-covid-jabs-after-treating-vulnerable

I am beyond broken if this means we can't get to any kind of normality.

If being selfish saves lives here, I think that's the government's duty.

I can't sign that petition.

Not because I disagree but because there are quite a few other groups with the same need, I'm in one of them myself. I either sign all petitions or none at all.

So I trust that PHE et al have not suddenly lost their capacity for critical thinking and have taken us all into consideration... and have been in discussion with the health professionals/organisations who are out medical voice!

And yes, I know, it's shit all round!

Wasn't it just after this that China announced the virus had actually come from an American lab??
Yup, they attempted to accuse an American military lab. Though who knows? the Wuhan lab did receive millions in funding from the American NIH to continue "gain of function" experiments that had just been banned in the US as it was deemed too risky. Couple that with the student arrested in December 2019 trying to smuggle biological materials and the arrested Harvard professor and you have a very interesting narrative forming.
www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-and-two-chinese-nationals-charged-three-separate-china-related

kowari

Sounds fair to me. Once the most vulnerable are protected then the NHS is in a better position to treat middle aged or younger patients who require hospital treatment.“

Or better still, and far more cost effectively, just vaccinate all adults and prevent them from ending up in hospital at all 🤷‍♀️

It’s disgusting to read the posts justifying why so many people feel they simply must be vaccinated while other countries can’t get any

TBF some of the posts about "I'd gladly give mine to (insert country of choice)" are just as ridiculous. Such a safe position to take from behind a keyboard, knowing it'll never actually come to that and they'll get their turn just the same

And thanks for the latest interesting link, BelleHathor ... there was some of that I hadn't heard about

@Puzzledandpissedoff a lot is being done to encourage the bame community as they know this may be an issue, hopefully we see figures that show vast majority will have it( there will always be people who won' have it from all races)
At least they are aware and on it so to speak.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

It’s disgusting to read the posts justifying why so many people feel they simply must be vaccinated while other countries can’t get any

TBF some of the posts about "I'd gladly give mine to (insert country of choice)" are just as ridiculous. Such a safe position to take from behind a keyboard, knowing it'll never actually come to that and they'll get their turn just the same

And thanks for the latest interesting link, BelleHathor ... there was some of that I hadn't heard about

I know it's difficult for you to comprehend, but some people actually understand the Covid risk. Vaccinating healthy young people doesn't massively reduce risk of long-term side effects of Covid because it's extremely low in the first place.

@Chutneywashisname you are aware of what uk is doing and has done to help address other countries getting the vaccine.
We have one if the highest death tolls and are a couple months away from fully vaccinating our vulnerable and also herd immunity to my knowledge hasn't been ruled out and out numbers also need to be down in both deaths and cases.
Where do you propose cut off is here and what countries do you think it should go to and in what order?

@Puzzledandpissedoff

It’s disgusting to read the posts justifying why so many people feel they simply must be vaccinated while other countries can’t get any

TBF some of the posts about "I'd gladly give mine to (insert country of choice)" are just as ridiculous. Such a safe position to take from behind a keyboard, knowing it'll never actually come to that and they'll get their turn just the same

And thanks for the latest interesting link, BelleHathor ... there was some of that I hadn't heard about

It's not ridiculous at all. I'm 32. I'm slim and completely healthy. I'm not scared of COVID-19 in the slightest. It poses almost no risk to me. Do you really think I wouldn't give up my vaccine to someone at high risk of dying from it, if I had the real chance? Of course I would, cos I'm not a complete arsehole.

I don’t want/need the vaccine either. Happy for ‘my’ dose to go elsewhere to someone who needs it.

I think some people have lost sight of what the risk actually is for younger, otherwise healthy people. A lot of us have probably already had it mildly or asymptomatically anyway.

I prefer the Indonesia model - vaccinate everyone of working age 18-59 first, and get the economy restarted quickly. I'd probably even say to prioritise those people with the most number of years of life left. If that was happening here, I would have to wait a lot longer for my vaccine (I'm 51), but I think that's fair really.

And thanks for the latest interesting link, BelleHathor...there was some of that I hadn't heard about
No problem at all Puzzled. Off Topic but I am old enough to remember the Clinton Chinese weapons scandal in the 90s, so knew the CCPs modus operandi. If you read these it's hard to understand why the WHO gave that early advice.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Cox_Report_controversy
mattstoller.substack.com/p/how-bill-clinton-and-american-financiers?sort=new

And memos sent to Trump on shutting borders in Jan 2020
www.axios.com/exclusive-navarro-deaths-coronavirus-memos-january-da3f08fb-dce1-4f69-89b5-ea048f8382a9.html

@SummerBlondey

I prefer the Indonesia model - vaccinate everyone of working age 18-59 first, and get the economy restarted quickly. I'd probably even say to prioritise those people with the most number of years of life left. If that was happening here, I would have to wait a lot longer for my vaccine (I'm 51), but I think that's fair really.

The problem is that it’s the older age groups that are most likely to end up in hospital, overwhelming the NHS. That’s why we’re vaccinating them first, to take the pressure off.

The Indonesia Model works for Indonesia. Last time I looked climate, demographics, contagion rates were all significantly different from those of the UK.

That's apples and oranges....

The Uk have donated 548 million pounds to Covax as well as helping raise 1 billion dollars towards the fund to provide vaccinations to poorer countries. If you look at the list of countries who have pledged donations, the uk’s contributions dwarfs everybody else’s, including the 500 million euros donated by the EU.
At the same time as that, they have been at the forefront of researching and ordering vaccines for our own citizens so that we are now world leading in our vaccination program and production facilities.
These are achievements to be celebrated and to act as inspiration to other wealthier nations. We should not be told to pause our own program and made to look like selfish bad guys when this couldn’t be further from the truth. I am sick of the UK being painted as villains and it’s time our government became very “unbritish” and started letting the world know the real situation.

Couldn’t agree more. But it’s only a small group of astroturfers and EU diehards on here who seem to relish painting the UK as villains in all of this. IRL the vast majority of people have much more sense!

Maybe we should have given away vaccines after vaccinating the care homes (priority 1) so that the whole world could then do their care homes, before we selfishly moved on to the over 80s and NHS/social care workers?

Jay which other countries?

Poorer ones with younger populations, warmer climates and a lower infection rate?

It's a worldwide issue and, as the country that apparently has the highest infection rate, an NHS on the brink of collapse and all the commercial and financial.issues too, I would say that the statistics suggest we still have one of the greatest needs.

The WHO argument that needs must cannot ignore the statistical issues that show colder climates and older populations are at greater risk. At the moment that is us.

Not mention the fact that we are, as a nation, simultaneously paying for vaccines to be available free and at cost to poorer nations and are already sending medical teams out to help set up mass vaccination programmes.

I don’t want/need the vaccine either. Happy for ‘my’ dose to go elsewhere to someone who needs it.

How does that work though? It's not like you can pop 'your' dose in an envelope and send it off to Needy Person, Poor Country, The World via Royal Mail.

Some countries are prioritising politicians and even elite athletes. Would you be happy for 'your' dose to go to one of them? Not to mention that many countries have high levels of corruption which would likely also apply to vaccine prioritisation. It's not a simple thing.

@SummerBlondey

I prefer the Indonesia model - vaccinate everyone of working age 18-59 first, and get the economy restarted quickly. I'd probably even say to prioritise those people with the most number of years of life left. If that was happening here, I would have to wait a lot longer for my vaccine (I'm 51), but I think that's fair really.

Don’t really get this thinking... the point of vaccination is not first and foremost to open the economy.....it’s to protect the NHS 🤔

I know it's difficult for you to comprehend, but some people actually understand the Covid risk. Vaccinating healthy young people doesn't massively reduce risk of long-term side effects of Covid because it's extremely low in the first place

No need to be quite so rude, especially as I agree with you; my whole point was that there's so little risk to the healthy young that there's no point at all in closing down until they too are jabbed

I'm sorry I can't accept that all of those insisting they'd give away their jab really mean it though ... not when some were the very ones posting the most doom-ridden remarks in the first place

Thanks for yet more interesting links, BelleHathor, and I'm another who, with quite a few miles on the clock, can remember rather a lot - I even recall the abuse hurled at Trump for suggesting border closure
FWIW I can't stand the man either, but it's the inconsistency which irritates ... let's face it, the man could have found a cure for Covid and he'd still be to blame for it

It's not ridiculous at all. I'm 32. I'm slim and completely healthy. I'm not scared of COVID-19 in the slightest. It poses almost no risk to me

Someone I know who was also slim, and completely healthy and not much older than you died from Covid. I wouldn’t be so blasé in thinking you are immune. I think the latest mutation is much harsher on the younger people.

A lot is being done to encourage the bame community as they know (vaccine resistance) may be an issue

And a darned good thing too ... let's just hope it's effective, but I'll still be fascinated to see if the "sod the selfish refusers" will extend to everyone rather than just preferred targets

How does (sharing vaccines elsewhere) work though? It's not like you can pop 'your' dose in an envelope and send it off to Needy Person, Poor Country, The World via Royal Mail

That's what I keep asking; in fact I wrote a longer post last night touching on who might be involved and how it'd work - no response of course
As said, it's so very easy to hammer out a position in words, when words are all it'll probably ever be

@Bythemillpond

It's not ridiculous at all. I'm 32. I'm slim and completely healthy. I'm not scared of COVID-19 in the slightest. It poses almost no risk to me

Someone I know who was also slim, and completely healthy and not much older than you died from Covid. I wouldn’t be so blasé in thinking you are immune. I think the latest mutation is much harsher on the younger people.

I'm not blasé. I know the risks. They're very small. Sorry about that person who died, but there are many MANY things that CAN kill young healthy people, but they don't stop me living my life, because I know the chance is so tiny.

FWIW I can't stand the man either, but it's the inconsistency which irritates ... let's face it, the man could have found a cure for Covid and he'd still be to blame for it

I’m am in no way a Trumpster, however, for me, putting aside for a moment all the craziness that happened during his four years he was/would have been the only President/Prime Minister/Leader that would have held China to account. I expect what we will see now where China is concerned is a rolling over by current leaders and we will have a rinse/repeat of Covid in xxx number of years.

I'm sorry I can't accept that all of those insisting they'd give away their jab really mean it though ... not when some were the very ones posting the most doom-ridden remarks in the first place

This.

I even recall the abuse hurled at Trump for suggesting border closure. FWIW I can't stand the man either, but it's the inconsistency which irritates ... let's face it, the man could have found a cure for Covid and he'd still be to blame for it

Agreed.