What do EU nationals think of the vaccines mess?

[Frazzled2207]

I’m a committed remainer. But the EU really did mess up last night. More seriously they are not in a good position right now with regards vaccine supply. Lots of anti-Eu posts here right now from committed remainers like me.

Just wondering what EU citizens make of all this and is there any bad feeling towards the UK? Do you think the EU has a right to some of the UK’s vaccine supply? Are people angry at the fact that the UK was able to secure more vaccines more quickly? Or are we coming across as selfish idiots?
Generally curious and am not here to start an argument

Yep and we’re vaccinating 500k a day, in a 100 days we will have vaccinated all of the adult population 😊 10 million done so far, 40 million to go.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme
IME there is quiet optimism on the asymptomatic onwards transmission amongst the scientific community - there has been some news on that today too.

So I stand by my point earlier that the more people vaccinated the fewer onwards transmission is looking good and is a benefits of one dose to more people rather than two to fewer.

@PutYourBackIntoit - yes EU purchased each vaccine at the price that would be possible once mass production is a smooth machinery and no hiccups (around £3ish).

The UK paid the price per dose of all the set up to that production (around £25 ish) - so the EU are being cheeky and I don't think that point is made clearly anywhere on price per vaccine they are paying - TBH that price is good news for the very poor countries, but in poor taste for EU to insist on the cheapest available price but the same delivery expectations as if they'd invested heavily in full support and development.

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum

Bloody brilliant news

Anyone want to argue about transmission or the 12 week gap now?

Listen to our amazing experts and stop listening to Twitter and the media😎

Cambridge University want to argue about the 12 week gap. They've published research today which indicates that 1 dose of the pfizer vaccine does not protect the elderly against the South African variant. They need the second dose before the immune response is strong enough.

www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/pfizer-biontech-vaccine-likely-to-be-effective-against-b117-strain-of-sars-cov-2
Yes - seen that - it says half (15) of the over 80s didn't produce enough antibodies to neutralise the new variant.

Currently lots of investigation into how widespread that variant is so I expect there is the willingness to adapt the decisions on new information etc.

Very much agree @Floppywin

My recovering-from-surgery late-80s grandmother and colleague’s 90-something father haven’t even been invited for their first dose. It does seem a bit weird.

@GingerAndTheBiscuits why not just book them in using the NHS website then? Anyone over 70 can book a slot, even if they haven’t had a letter.

The more data we get about AZ the more Macron is going to need to eat his words. The damage will have been done, surely many french people will be discouraged from the vaccine by now.

Cambridge University want to argue about the 12 week gap. They've published research today which indicates that 1 dose of the pfizer vaccine does not protect the elderly against the South African variant. They need the second dose before the immune response is strong enough.

Are they claiming it does give the full dose when they have had second jab , even if larger gap?

My nan has had the pfizer but we have said still stay in until second dose which is due early april I think and continue as she as its only a few more weeks

Continue as if not been vaccinated is the case anyhow irrespective of the Cambridge research above.

Continue as if not been vaccinated is the case anyhow irrespective of the Cambridge research above

Yes that was my understanding and what my nan is doing my step nan has actually had 2 pfizer within 3 week time frame and she is still just following lockdown

We have to wait for more research anyhow so advice is same. I remember Betty Boothroyd and Joan Bakewell demanding second dose recently as they were looking forward to seeing friends and going to dinner at end of January......
Strange - such bright people but didn’t grasp nothing changes until more and more people are vaccinated - selfish attitude.

I thought then there will be trouble ahead if they don’t get message across that it’s the amount of people vaccinated not just you yourself etc.

When I heard about spreading dates it seemed good idea from point of view of older people understanding they have to continue as if they hadn’t had the vaccine and can still catch it, more mildly etc and possibly be in the percentage it doesn’t work on at all - so it’s numbers vaccinated that are very important and France will suffer with their anti vaccine views and idiot for a president ....

Floppywin

Yes I read about that too. Haven't seen all the information yet. That is bond to be tested else where before anyone can take that as proof.

Anyway the point is 12 week gap is better the proof is now available. Plus evidence of reduction in transmission too.

Happy days 🥳

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum

Floppywin

Yes I read about that too. Haven't seen all the information yet. That is bond to be tested else where before anyone can take that as proof.

Anyway the point is 12 week gap is better the proof is now available. Plus evidence of reduction in transmission too.

Happy days 🥳

Sorry meant to say for the Pfizer 12 week gap with reference to the cambridge results. It doesn't affect the oxford vaccine evidence. Just the Pfizer needs more proof.

@Floppywin

Continue as if not been vaccinated is the case anyhow irrespective of the Cambridge research above.

Well that's what they all meant to do be super careful between dose 1 and 2.

2nd we not south Africa hopefully its not that prevalent within the community and most over 80s be safe at home or care home.

TBF I’m open minded on research may find slightly differently between AZ and Pfizer.

The Cambridge research above is Pfizer and the news today reported was on AZ.

New variant effects still new.

That’s what’s good about U.K.’s wide research as we can’t rest on laurels and say job done it really is about reacting quickly and adapting.

If gov did decide the gap was moved closer I see that as reacting to data - others will choose to see it as being wrong. Needless to say I think they’re idiots. React, adapt, change plan if necessary isn’t same as being wrong. Wrong is to maintain a course and not react like Titanic... change doesn’t indicate something is wrong.

@Floppywin

TBF I’m open minded on research may find slightly differently between AZ and Pfizer.

The Cambridge research above is Pfizer and the news today reported was on AZ.

New variant effects still new.

That’s what’s good about U.K.’s wide research as we can’t rest on laurels and say job done it really is about reacting quickly and adapting.

If gov did decide the gap was moved closer I see that as reacting to data - others will choose to see it as being wrong. Needless to say I think they’re idiots. React, adapt, change plan if necessary isn’t same as being wrong. Wrong is to maintain a course and not react like Titanic... change doesn’t indicate something is wrong.

Absolutely. The last thing you want is refusal to change, when a virus changes

Cross posts

@ 3asAbird
Even after 2nd dose we should behave as if we hadn’t had vaccine - won’t know if we are in the percentage it doesn’t work on even after both doses.

It’s the numbers of other people being vaccinated that take that overall risk down.

Also doesn’t prevent people from catching it but gives more mild form. So overall we want fewer people transmitting it which is looking promising with the AZ vaccine news today.

@Floppywin

www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/pfizer-biontech-vaccine-likely-to-be-effective-against-b117-strain-of-sars-cov-2 Yes - seen that - it says half (15) of the over 80s didn't produce enough antibodies to neutralise the new variant.

Currently lots of investigation into how widespread that variant is so I expect there is the willingness to adapt the decisions on new information etc.

Ok. Only 15 tested and 7 not protected with one jab. The test was not in in people it was lab based in a dish. That means you need to take into account the amazing human body. We don't just use antibodies to fight viruses. Therefore you need a much bigger experiment and ideally to calculate the extra help from the immune system into the results.

Yes - that’s true all the T cell bits our bodies can muster - so yes good point, well made.

Also definitely wait for more research, I’m hopeful and think we are in position to adapt.

Story in WSJ. Nothing new in here, similar to the Politico account but more references between US and EU approaches

twitter.com/bopanc/status/1356686345465434115?s=21

www.jenner.ac.uk/about/funders-partners

www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-universities-2020-7-brexit-funding-gap-for-oxford-s-covid-19-vaccine-institute/

By the by, Adrian Hill is Irish.

Here is a tracker of what date each country in the EU will vaccinate it’s population, the UK August 2021, September 2024

www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-vaccination-live-data-tracker/

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/29/we-had-to-go-it-alone-how-the-uk-got-ahead-in-the-covid-vaccine-race

(see reference to Jenner in that article above)

www.tdi.ox.ac.uk/about/latest-news/landmark-partnership-announced-for-development-of-covid-19-vaccine

@SummerBody1 - can't make any sense of what the point you're trying to make?

Would be like EU shooting themselves in the foot back in July 2020 wouldn't it by withdrawing funding due to Brexit? Highlights that it is UK that stepped up at the time with the funding being withdrawn?

Brexit or no Brexit the EU should have been contributing worldwide to the research and development at the same level per capita as UK and US into potential vaccines.

EU have put in large orders and argued over costs of those, but not exactly been there with the full money for researching and developing - still not even ordered Novavax (if approved, they are way back in the queue for delivery of that vaccine).

It's clearly not true that EU couldn't continue to fund research at Jenner. Just another shooting themselves in the foot exercise you've highlighted. Weird.