What do EU nationals think of the vaccines mess?

[Frazzled2207]

I’m a committed remainer. But the EU really did mess up last night. More seriously they are not in a good position right now with regards vaccine supply. Lots of anti-Eu posts here right now from committed remainers like me.

Just wondering what EU citizens make of all this and is there any bad feeling towards the UK? Do you think the EU has a right to some of the UK’s vaccine supply? Are people angry at the fact that the UK was able to secure more vaccines more quickly? Or are we coming across as selfish idiots?
Generally curious and am not here to start an argument

I'd rather have the AZ one - people I know who've had it have already been given a 2nd appointment because presumably due to the storage issues, supplies are more reliable. Pfizer patients I know haven't been given a second appointment yet (I know some have already had their 2nd shot but that doesn't include anyone that I know).

Beyond that I don't care which one I have.

I agree I think Ursula VdL needs to STFU. I thought we were supposed to be resetting our relationship with the EU after the Article 16 fiasco. Things like this really aren't helpful.

You're right, she does need to STFU, because it strikes me the continued furore (where are we now, day 4 or 5) over a stupid idea and the resultant short lived draft document which never even got considered by a committee has quite possibly been used by some to deflect from other issues....you'd almost think the continued "pile on" was orchestrated.

@Baileysforchristmas
I'd take anything offered, but am involved in one of the vaccine trials so have a strong preference for that just

@paradiseisland – if you look at the investment per capita into the research and development of the vaccines coming through - UK orders were part of those investments from the start and took on lots of risk.

The amount of the vaccines on order by any country or trading bloc doesn't tell us anything on its own.

The EU have spent and ordered enough per capita of vaccines but have invested very poorly per capita into the research, risk and development of the vaccines. Also, have signed deals lot later (ie still not ordered any Novovax if that gets final approval, 3 months later on AZ).

Developing Covid 19 vaccine in the first place is the most important investment for the world overall to beat the virus.

UK invested across a range of vaccine research and development - some wouldn’t be at the stage of or as near to approval as they are without heavy investment and support at the beginning (taking a risk). The EU have lots of orders, but haven’t invested heavily per capita in risk/development.

US and UK invested similar per capita across range of vaccines and the EU is dwarfed in this respect.

EU has lots on order but not so much invested into developing the vaccines per capita – less risk taken to develop in first place. I’ll have loads of those lovely cakes, when someone else has set up the factory, ordered the ingredients, trained the staff, smoothed out production lines etc… EU would like a cheaper price for their bloc and don’t want to invest in nurturing, supporting or investing the creation/possible failure of the dream cake at the beginning.

Obviously, the surplus vaccine is for others around the world when we’ve supported UK/Ireland with whoever wants a vaccine, not sure how you’ve missed that information.

If you search for Financial Times a good few items and graphs are available to view (can't share more than certain amount of articles, personally) as to how much per capita investment for example. On, how many are ordered per capita look similar etc.

Investment/risk in development is how the world now has so many vaccines to choose from -some failed – but it’s not “luck”, it’s wise choices on where to place the risk.

above, I mean : how much ORDERED per capita looks similar, but not the same as invested in development per capita - EU has ordered excess vaccines etc but the investment risk per capita is not equal.

graphs only tell bit of a story - but investment at the beginning of development is why UK has a choice of so many potential sources of vaccines.

the resultant short lived draft document which never even got considered by a committee
Very interesting article about how it all went down. Apparently (quite far down) all 26 European Commissioners did sign off the language, although with only about 30 minutes notice so probably signed without reading.
www.nytimes.com/2021/02/01/world/europe/eu-vaccine-von-der-leyen.html

*US and UK invested similar per capita across range of vaccines and the EU is dwarfed in this respect.

EU has lots on order but not so much invested into developing the vaccines per capita – less risk taken to develop in first place. I’ll have loads of those lovely cakes, when someone else has set up the factory, ordered the ingredients, trained the staff, smoothed out production lines etc… EU would like a cheaper price for their bloc and don’t want to invest in nurturing, supporting or investing the creation/possible failure of the dream cake at the beginning.

Obviously, the surplus vaccine is for others around the world when we’ve supported UK/Ireland with whoever wants a vaccine, not sure how you’ve missed that information.*

Well, said Floppywin. I'm proud the UK is putting so much into this. Part of the EU's problem seems to be that they are trying to keep all their nations, including poorer ones, happy so were unwilling to invest more heavily. Not helpful to the rest of the world.

That's definitely what we were led to believe over the weekend!!!

What pointy fingers UvdL has!

That should be bolded to show as a quote from Floppywin and should say Well said, Floppywin. Sorry it looks like a giant plagiarise!

NOT WHAT,

Would you just bloody prof read... please?!?!

Sweden have just announced that their regulator has approved the AstraZenica vaccine for people 18-64. It's not approved for people 65 and over.

Not forgetting Ursula von der Leyen's disappearing act;

"Last week [October 2020] von der Leyen abruptly abandoned Thursday’s European Council meeting to go into self-isolation because a member of her staff had tested positive for Covid. But while in quarantine, she dropped completely from the radar. No news as to her whereabouts."

"This week, journalists in Brussels finally managed to solve the mystery of the missing Ursula, prising the information from a vague-sounding spokesperson. The commission president lives in the Berlaymont Building in Brussels, but fled to her hometown of Hanover, a five-hour drive from Belgium, nipping through the Netherlands and on into Germany. This was not disclosed to the media."

www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/phil-hogan-has-reason-to-be-aggrieved-over-von-der-leyen-s-covid-quarantine-trip-1.4389838

@FatCatThinCat

Sweden have just announced that their regulator has approved the AstraZenica vaccine for people 18-64. It's not approved for people 65 and over.

Sweden is within EU. They Hardly have a great record at managing covid. Its strange their ema never put innage restrictions. Their vulnerable be waiting a long time if they only have phizer and moderna available. Because they so poor at genome sequencing they maybe have south African varient. I guess they feel secure because its all being produced in Europe. Let's not forget the export authorisation ban is in place. Notnings really changed in EU they still massively short.

@FatCatThinCat

Sweden have just announced that their regulator has approved the AstraZenica vaccine for people 18-64. It's not approved for people 65 and over.

Ah well! Given the science behind that decision (still nothing with any high significance, there still isn't a lot of data... give it another week or so) is the difference between "as good as we usually get" and "better than we usually ask for" I don't think I'd be refusing the AZ if it was offered to me... or my Aged Parents!

Countries can do as they wish but not authorising Oxford Az won’t bring about more Pfizer faster

Immune response was good enough for MHRA, fine

All this furore from EU looks bad on their part. So much noise over it

Is anyone else having visions of the European Song Contest, with added vaccine, over this?

Only this time there is a chance that we have the best song!!!!

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Is anyone else having visions of the European Song Contest, with added vaccine, over this?

Only this time there is a chance that we have the best song!!!!

Nah, feels more like every country in Europe is giving the UK song a low score and all the Brits are bitching about politics and whinging about why nobody ever votes for them.

Nah, feels more like every country in Europe is giving the UK song a low score and all the Brits are bitching about politics and whinging about why nobody ever votes for them.

Except the EU is crying and shouting no one gave them enough copies of the records they apparently didn’t like.

DAVOS 2021: Japan and Korea attack EU's vaccine nationalism.

Government ministers from Japan and Korea have attacked the vaccine nationalism of the European Union, urging the bloc not to adopt export controls on COVID-19 vaccines and urging international cooperation.

uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/davos-2021-japan-korea-vaccine-nationalism-covid-19-coronavirus-eu-122117522.html

And talking about whinging the EU is still going on and on.

We’re happy for you to do your own thing.

uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/davos-2021-japan-korea-vaccine-nationalism-covid-19-coronavirus-eu-122117522.html

Nah, feels more like every country in Europe is giving the UK song a low score and all the Brits are bitching about politics and whinging about why nobody ever votes for them. Except nobody here is moaning. We're bemused, and getting vaccinated!

And there is still the chance we have the best song!

I guess it helps to say won’t vaccine over 65s with AZ - as then signing 3 months later AZ and not investing more in production process isn’t so pressing.

There is no suitable vaccine for their over 65s other than Pfizer which is more difficult to store etc so AZ will be given to working age population.

May be a cynical political decision to try to get their economies moving rather than protect older citizens first.

EU probably more under heat about not being able to end lockdowns sooner than death rate.
also there is debate as to whether other countries include care home deaths etc

EU won’t want images of successful UK vaccine roll out whilst EU still in lockdown so the cynic in me thinks it is a way to use vaccine on younger population first ? Can’t see any other reason.

Ah ha! An outside perspective...

I don't see any problem with it.
Yes the pipeline matters hugely because at this stage it's about timeliness of delivery (hence economic recovery) rather than the worry that we won't all be vaccinated at some point.

Quick off the mark = quicker economic recovery

Sometimes but not always. It depends how many other (more harmful) mutations pop up in the unvaccinated countries in the meantime and how effective the first wave of vaccines are against them.