What do EU nationals think of the vaccines mess?

[Frazzled2207]

I’m a committed remainer. But the EU really did mess up last night. More seriously they are not in a good position right now with regards vaccine supply. Lots of anti-Eu posts here right now from committed remainers like me.

Just wondering what EU citizens make of all this and is there any bad feeling towards the UK? Do you think the EU has a right to some of the UK’s vaccine supply? Are people angry at the fact that the UK was able to secure more vaccines more quickly? Or are we coming across as selfish idiots?
Generally curious and am not here to start an argument

Covid of all humanity...

Imagine... If they did!! Imagine!!

That the Pasteaur Institute did not succeed in the vaccine is a paradox to me. Why did they stop it?
But.... they damn have the equipment, so they should be reaching full capacity in the production of other vaccines for covid, which I think either them or Sanofi will be doing.

@TheSunIsStillShining

I'm an EU citizen living in UK. Atm I think all this is just the result of someone having had enough, lost the plot and in sheer rage invoked art. 16. Then came to their senses and backtracked. And yes, it was a mistake. Tbf I am in awe at the EU diplomats for not loosing their shit in the past years of negotiations.

Why’s that then? What you on aww of exactly?

@SkiingIsHeaven that was the best description ive seen of this debacle 😂

[quote Frazzled2207]@EasterIssland
@Asthesayinggoes

*Northern Ireland is still in the Eu for commercial reasons so can have some of the Eu vaccines

Northern Ireland could send this vaccines to the uk I hope I understood it right. *

No I don’t think that’s right. The EU apparently thought that although they could potentially check what vaccines were going straight from the EU to the UK, we could potentially still get them smuggled in via the Ireland /NI border as that border is essentially open. Hence the article 16 thing. Suggests they don’t trust us.[/quote]
Are you really surprised they don’t trust the U.K. when the U.K. made it clear they wouldn’t follow the rules/law albeit ‘in a limited way’

@OuiOuiKitty

Why it has resulted in this big row or why it has anything to do with the U.K. and far less the Irish border is quite hard to fathom.

From this thread it would appear that people in the UK think it is a big row but in the EU we don't really care about the UK and it barely features. If you listen to the people here that are living in the EU they are saying we are all fairly chill about the whole thing. The border thing was rolled back on in a couple of hours after Ireland said well actually that won't work.

I don't know why people on the ground in the UK are acting so wound up about the whole thing, like you said it's nothing to with the UK so why all the frothing? It's weird and seems out of proportion to what happening in EU counties right now.

Take the whole “row” out of it, along with how and where it’s being reported.

Are EU citizens of various countries happy with how the vaccine programme is going as directed by the EC? Because I’d be seriously pissed off with how badly it seems to have been handled.

Yes I love both the pizza and Take That (on another thread) descriptions of this farce.

@MushMonster

That the Pasteaur Institute did not succeed in the vaccine is a paradox to me. Why did they stop it? But.... they damn have the equipment, so they should be reaching full capacity in the production of other vaccines for covid, which I think either them or Sanofi will be doing.

I think they’re going to do the Pfizer one but I might be wrong.

@EasterIssland Sanofi have handed production facilities over to other firms, not sure which.

FWIW i don't see why people are annoyed their vaccine didn't work. They tried and failed. What is wrong with that?

@Furries no we aren't. Far too slow.

But I wouldn't be happy with the uk rollout either. Too hasty and risky with the 3 month gap.

@Jemenfouscompletement no need to have shame. I'm not disputing there is shame but it is needless. They thought they had it, trials proved otherwise. Nothing shameful in that.

[quote MesmerisingMinerva]@EasterIssland Sanofi have handed production facilities over to other firms, not sure which.

FWIW i don't see why people are annoyed their vaccine didn't work. They tried and failed. What is wrong with that?[/quote]
I’d not get annoyed with a company who has failed at creating a vaccine tbh. These things at the end of the day happen. We know about it now cuz of Corona. Otherwise I’m pretty sure some medicines won’t make it

Itscoldouthere

We purchased excessive quantities of "potential" vaccines. At the time we invested money we had no idea which, if any, of the vaccines would work. We could have ended up with nothing. The UK government is not planning (as far as I know) to hoard any vaccines we don't need so they will be shared.

In Spain - EU not mentioned much but people frustrated at slow rollout and also that a lot of Spanish politicians have queue jumped and got their vaccines. That’s the main story, along with reports on newly approved vaccines. I only see Spanish criticism of the sp govt’s handling of the crisis than the EU, which is a little unfair I think but then again EU citizens don’t think of themselves as EU citizens, they think of themselves as Dutch, Catalan, Finnish etc. you can remember back to pre-coalition days the Brits didn’t either, now it seems to be all that MN talks about.

I'm Irish living in Germany. The whole issue was in the papers for the last few days but there was nothing of the nastiness , name calling and accusations of' stealing' that that has appeared in the British Press (Daily Mail).It has in general been dealt with in a fairly calm manner.None of my friends and acquaintances either Irish or German are particularly angry and there are is certainly no anticipation that the EU is about to fail because of it.Sanofi are to take on manufacturing the Biontech/Pfizer vaccine at their plants in Frankfurt producing 125 million doses.Novartis will also be stepping up to help in the production of the vaccine from Biontech /Pfizer.Angela Merkel has said this week that we have a difficult 10 weeks ahead but has not waded into the discussions about the AstraZeneca vaccine shortfall.There are meetings planned for next week to discuss further measures.

I think the Sanofi situation has nothing to do with the UK and we should stay out of it.

Maybe it has put pressure on the EU to get vaccines elsewhere (but again that is nothing to do with the UK.)

Vaccines fail unfortunately, maybe the EU put too many eggs in one basket but again that is nothing to do with the UK. If EU citizens are pissed off with that it is between EU countries and the EU.

IMO

I think we're perfectly justified in being pissed off about vaccine export bans and the Article 16 'mistake'.

Tbh my reasons for wanting to remain are unchanged. I don't believe that the UK had a divine right to get the vaccines before any other country in Europe. Both the UK and the other EU member states funded the research, and therefore were equally entitled to supply. I don't support the UK receiving them earlier than the poorer member states in the EU. This is why I still support the ideology behind the EU as I believe in equality and supporting the other countries, rather than the UK stepping over them on its race to the top (or wherever folks believe that Brexit is going to lead).

Furthermore any of the member states could have ordered their supply independently as the UK did, as they ordered pre Brexit. These countries chose to be part of a bulk contract and this was the consequence.

Gosh so many U.K. posters on here going mad when those of us who give our views and the views of our media outside the U.K. as asked by OP don’t feed their diatribe of how bad the EU are and how great the U.K. are.

You’re being led by your media. Over here things are a lot more balanced Re AZ that the EU could have a point in their reading of the contract. So we have to wait and see if they’re right or not. For the same reason no one is saying ‘oh let’s see if the EU goes mad about the Pfizer & Moderna delays’ as we know there isn’t the same ambiguity of contract there so it’s not even discussed.

Re Article 16, I grew up on the border. I was not happy to hear it was triggered yesterday evening. I saw Michael had called EU and before I went to bed last night the whole thing was resolved. Maybe alot of us don’t see the EU as sinister like the U.K. do so are not worrying about if they do it again. Plus we know what the DUP are like and crazy Arlene is loving this despite wanting the U.K. to trigger Article 16 herself a few weeks ago!

Like I said I’m not annoyed with the vaccine delay. It’s production issues mainly. If J&J is approved we can catch up quickly as it’s one dose. I’d nearly prefer my >65 relatives to get the Pfizer too as it seems a better idea.

If it doesnt pick up after these teething issues though I will be annoyed.

@Northernsoullover

We ordered huge amounts without even knowing if they worked. Did other countries do this?

The US did this also. That was the whole point of operation warp speed.

[quote MesmerisingMinerva]@Furries no we aren't. Far too slow.

But I wouldn't be happy with the uk rollout either. Too hasty and risky with the 3 month gap.[/quote]
Read the last two lines of an interview with the AZ CEO. Other trails are also being done on other vaccines and so far that backs this up.

"Oxford University conducted the so-called Oxford trial in UK and Brazil, and we have data for patients who received the vaccine in one-month interval, 2 or 3 months interval. First of all, we believe that the efficacy of one dose is sufficient: 100 percent protection against severe disease and hospitalisation, and 71-73 percent of efficacy overall. The second dose is needed for long term protection. But you get a better efficiency if you get the 2nd dose later than earlier."

I am a EU national living in the UK.
It is difficult to know for sure without reading the contracts and being a legal expert, bit it seems to be a problem that the EU has with a company (AZ). I don't know what the UK as a country has to do with any of it to be honest. If the EU is not happy with AZ they should go to court.

I don't like how the EU is behaving though, I think they are very behind in the vaccine rollout and they cannot stand that the UK is doing so well, because it is in their interest that the UK doesn't do well after leaving.
For obvious reasons I am a remainer (I don't like the xenophobic aspect of Brexit, that the campaign was based partly on) but maybe in this particular pandemic situation, being outside the EU hasn't been that bad.

Are the uk not jealous of Israel?

I'm full of admiration for them. The made a clever deal with Pfizer which saved them some money and they're providing useful data back to the company. They got their vaccines, pulled in the military and are getting the job done. The world should be watching their example.

The fact is though, that the UK govt invested 1.9 billion in vaccine technologies. This investment enabled the AZ vaccines to get off the ground and into production. The result being that, once scaled up, vaccines could be provided to parts of the EU at cost. The EU as a whole has only invested 1.7 billion and at a later stage. Invoking article 16 was bullying. There was no emergency. What evidence did they have that the UK would steal the 3.5 million jabs headed to Ireland? Especially when we don't have a huge shortage and it is in the interests of both Northern Ireland and the UK as a whole that residents in Ireland get vaccinated. It's not like the there is even a hedge dividing the area. Also, individual countries in the EU (Inc Germany, Italy and the Netherlands) attempted to procure vaccines for themselves, before eventually being made to share their contracts with the UK. Despite being in the EU, they were clearly putting themselves first ahead of the Union. And now they turn around and lecture us for seeking to look after our own? It's just all so arrogant.

Share their contracts with the EU. Not the UK. Sorry

The fact there’s no introspection or criticism of the EU handling is quite amazing to me. No wonder the EU Commission get away with their behaviour and poor handling if no one holds them to account. I’m glad the U.K. press don’t give our politicians such an easy pass.

This. We do have a tradition of a very robust and bullish media in the UK, particularly the press, and I'm grateful for that.

The same robustness doesn't seem to exist in ROI, I've noticed. RTE is very pro establishment /government /EU and so is the Irish Times. They do have quite an obsession with bashing Boris and the British government, though which is rather bizarre.