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Original poster

Re AZ vaccine. Maybe I'm thick. Could someone explain why it's the UKs fault?

124 replies

VettiyaIruken · 30/01/2021 09:01

Me and my neighbour both want a certain item from Amazon. I buy 2 because I want and need 2. A few weeks later my neighbour buys one.

Mine arrives. My neighbour gets an email from Amazon saying their package is delayed. My neighbour comes to me, banging on my door, yelling at me that Amazon haven't delivered and demanding that I give her mine or at least 1 of mine. I say no, I ordered them, I'm using them. She needs to take it up with Amazon. My neighbour screams at me that I'm a cunt and goes round the entire village yelling about what a twat I am.

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 30/01/2021 10:17

For the strawberry plant one, which I like, the buyer spent 3 months haggling down from £2 to £1.95 even though other strawberries were £10 and the seller wasn’t making anything on it to start with

Spending three months doing this meant when they looked over garden fence they threw a tantrum as a strawberry supper was occurring.

stripeyIIIIItscmsfkmf · 30/01/2021 10:17

Oh don't worry I found it

stripeyIIIIItscmsfkmf · 30/01/2021 10:19

Sounds like more political hot air, trying to put on the pressure. I'm honestly surprised so many people have let themselves get so whipped up in a frenzy about it all. I guess with the fear and frustration of the pandemic and repeated lockdowns, it's the perfect environment for it.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 30/01/2021 10:20

I’m a remainer

The vaccination programme is the one thing this govt has got right and the EU can go and do one. None of this is the UKs fault

MarshaBradyo · 30/01/2021 10:23

@stripeyIIIIItscmsfkmf

Sounds like more political hot air, trying to put on the pressure. I'm honestly surprised so many people have let themselves get so whipped up in a frenzy about it all. I guess with the fear and frustration of the pandemic and repeated lockdowns, it's the perfect environment for it.
Frenzy where?

The U.K. tg has not said much on it. AZ / OZ very good at press conference.

The hot air is coming from EU. Article 16 another blast. And then talk of article 122. Oh and authorisation of export now needed.

Some will die down when contractual basis is strong for AZ, but export authorisation isn’t good. Maybe Pfizer will move production to US.

stripeyIIIIItscmsfkmf · 30/01/2021 10:24

Frenzy where?

The U.K. tg has not said much on it. AZ / OZ very good at press conference.

Yeah I was talking about among the general public.

mumwon · 30/01/2021 10:24

can we also point out that we need to control the number of infections because of the mutation which if we don't will spread outside our borders.
AND
Our government actually gave money to the OXFORD researchers to develop it etc

ABitOfAShitShow · 30/01/2021 10:27

Some of these analogies/posts are brilliant.

Particularly like the add-on lanzo wrote! The UK worked with AZ to make things happen - it’s not down to luck, or AZ’s efforts alone.

How anyone can support the EU in their attitude and approach to this, is absolutely beyond me.

samanthawashington · 30/01/2021 10:33

@BilboBercow

Hasn't the EU made a number of statements specifically stating their argument is with AZ not the UK?
Yes, they have, but have then gone on to say that shipments ordered 3 months earlier by the UK and paid for by the UK should be diverted back to Europe.

I hope they haven't a legal leg to stand on in this.

Original poster
VettiyaIruken · 30/01/2021 10:45

Thanks for the much better analogies and explanations, you're all fab! Wine

OP posts:
Guinan · 30/01/2021 10:53

First of all, yesterday’s behaviour by the EU Commission was an absolute disgrace. The conflict should be between the EU and AZ, not the UK.

My understanding of the conflict is this: The EU concluded a contract with AZ and paid a large amount both for development and the setting up of production capacities. In order to be able to fulfil this contract, AZ should have built up a stock even before approval so the vaccine could be rolled out quickly immediately after approval. (I don’t agree with that, but apparently AZ agreed to it.)

After the approval in the UK in December, some stocks (4 Million?) were delivered from the Netherlands and Germany to the UK, so AZ sold at least part of the stocks they should have been building for the EU to others. (Which is why the EU now want to control (not ban!) exports.)

In January, one week before the expected approval in the EU, AZ informed the EU that they will deliver less than 40 % of what was agreed for the first quarter. However, there will be no shortfall whatsoever for the UK, who profited from EU production but allegedly have a contract allowing them to keep all their UK production for themselves. That doesn’t seem right, and if the situation was the other way round, people in the UK would also be up in arms about it. (When Pfizer had reduced capacity, at least deliveries to all countries were affected.)

DdraigGoch · 30/01/2021 10:54

@Thepilotlightsgoneout

I have a question! If there was no Brexit and we were still in the EU, would we have been able to strike our own deals the vaccine companies as we had or would we have HAD to be part of any EU deals? Anyone know?
Several European countries tried to go it alone with the AZ vaccine but were pressured into stopping. So no, the UK wouldn't have gone it alone. We always used to follow European rules to the letter.
ApolloandDaphne · 30/01/2021 10:54

I read the OP several times thinking WTF has Amazon got to do with vaccine delivery. It wasn't until I read d the responses I realised it was an an analogy. I think I need a cup of coffee!

meditrina · 30/01/2021 10:57

@shrill

Ah but drip feed, OP you fail to mention that your order is for nappies and that your neighbour has been slow to act in the past but not as bad as you. This is one time when you could see that share and share alike would be the right thing to do as we are all in this together and by doing so together we might all have a future to look forward to. So, how about being the bigger person, after all you have loads of loo rolls!
This one doesn't work - it assumes you have stockpiled the nappies, rather than used hem at the rate you received them (before the neighbours even decided they were OK to use)

There are no spare nappies

Doomsdayiscoming · 30/01/2021 11:05

@VettiyaIruken

Me and my neighbour both want a certain item from Amazon. I buy 2 because I want and need 2. A few weeks later my neighbour buys one.

Mine arrives. My neighbour gets an email from Amazon saying their package is delayed. My neighbour comes to me, banging on my door, yelling at me that Amazon haven't delivered and demanding that I give her mine or at least 1 of mine. I say no, I ordered them, I'm using them. She needs to take it up with Amazon. My neighbour screams at me that I'm a cunt and goes round the entire village yelling about what a twat I am.

You’ve bought two loaves of bread. Your neighbour is starving. You feed your second loaf to the birds, whilst your neighbour starves.
TheSockMonster · 30/01/2021 11:05

@Guinan

I think (but may be wrong!) that only the first part of the drug was produced in the Netherlands and Germany and that it’s the other part that is causing production delays. I also thought that UK invested heavily months before the EU did and that any divert vaccines were due to the drug (still!) not being approved in the EU.

This is a good interview with the CEO of AZ that was posted on another thread.

I went into this assuming the UK were being grabby, but I don’t think we are the bad guys here.

TheSockMonster · 30/01/2021 11:07

You’ve bought two loaves of bread. Your neighbour is starving. You feed your second loaf to the birds, whilst your neighbour starves.

That doesn’t really work because a loaf of bread can be shared, a vaccine can’t. If the 2 items were your 2 elderly parents’ vaccines, would you be so quick to give one to your neighbour? Especially if your neighbour was less at risk of catching it in the first place.

DdraigGoch · 30/01/2021 11:08

Having delayed ordering strawberries by three months while they haggled, your neighbour's crop has been hit by a hard frost which has substantially reduced yield. You had issues early on but they were resolved three months ago. Your neighbour demands to know why they can't have some of yours, claiming that you stole four strawberries even though they are short of seventy. Your neighbour blocks your driveway, hoping to intercept your raspberry deliveries.

Dinnafashyersel · 30/01/2021 11:09

Just to add to the strawberry scenario re the development curve. The main sticking point appears to be that the EU manufacturing sites don't have as good potting compost and propagators. Predictable as the UK were pretty much scaling from the ground up and digging in with plenty of compost and spadework whereas the EU were relying on established soil and adapting existing capacity and expertise.

The EU assumed their yield would be in line with or higher than the UK's but it has ended up lower (good interview with AZ on this on-line somewhere in the googleverse).

(The underlying assumption from the way the EU negotiated was that their factories would be capable of supplying the EU and they were trying to prevent undercutting imports - very much how they do all trade deals.)

FOJN · 30/01/2021 11:11

What if you could manage with just one until Amazon can send you the second one at a later date, and in the meantime giving one of yours to your neighbour could save their life? Although your neighbour has been a bit of a CF anyway so maybe you won't be all that upset even if they do die... just better hope you don't get a new neighbour move in who would make your life really shit, though.

If my neighbour popped round, explained the situation and asked me to help them out then of course I would. If they behaved as the OP described then I'd be telling them to fuck off because their unreasonable and irrational behaviour would be quite intimidating and I'd want to discourage them from using similar tactics in the future.

DenisetheMenace · 30/01/2021 11:12

17thEarlOfOxford

Please consider using alternative online shopping services. Amazon pays very little UK tax and is often more expensive and lower quality than alternatives.“

We’d have been stuffed without Amazon this past year. Can’t afford most independent retailers. Sorry, but there we are.

Anyway, no can’t explain the EU’s stance. It’s being VVU.

ABitOfAShitShow · 30/01/2021 11:12

Re: the question about individual members setting up their own contracts, I’m not sure how Germany got around it (or perhaps they had to backtrack - I lost interest in that story) but nations can only place orders with suppliers that the EU does not have a contract with. So Hungary has been able to purchase the Russian and Chinese vaccines as the EU does not have its own contracts for either of those.

DdraigGoch · 30/01/2021 11:12

@shrill

Ah but drip feed, OP you fail to mention that your order is for nappies and that your neighbour has been slow to act in the past but not as bad as you. This is one time when you could see that share and share alike would be the right thing to do as we are all in this together and by doing so together we might all have a future to look forward to. So, how about being the bigger person, after all you have loads of loo rolls!
But you don't have any spare nappies. Earlier on you hadn't listened to health warnings about the local Italian restaurant and your toddler now has the shits. You really need those nappies.
Justthebeerlighttoguide · 30/01/2021 11:13

It is absolutely nothing to do with us except someone in the bowels of the EU Poe faced politicians are loosing their heads at their own never ending ineptitude and screaming like toddlers - like Trump, its because of he UK.....those baddies...

Like many posters on here they are desperately shoe horning it into being our fault.

Doomsdayiscoming · 30/01/2021 11:14

@TheSockMonster

You’ve bought two loaves of bread. Your neighbour is starving. You feed your second loaf to the birds, whilst your neighbour starves.

That doesn’t really work because a loaf of bread can be shared, a vaccine can’t. If the 2 items were your 2 elderly parents’ vaccines, would you be so quick to give one to your neighbour? Especially if your neighbour was less at risk of catching it in the first place.

The birds are the young and healthy.

I’d happily give my vaccine up for an elderly Italian.