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Original poster

Re AZ vaccine. Maybe I'm thick. Could someone explain why it's the UKs fault?

124 replies

VettiyaIruken · 30/01/2021 09:01

Me and my neighbour both want a certain item from Amazon. I buy 2 because I want and need 2. A few weeks later my neighbour buys one.

Mine arrives. My neighbour gets an email from Amazon saying their package is delayed. My neighbour comes to me, banging on my door, yelling at me that Amazon haven't delivered and demanding that I give her mine or at least 1 of mine. I say no, I ordered them, I'm using them. She needs to take it up with Amazon. My neighbour screams at me that I'm a cunt and goes round the entire village yelling about what a twat I am.

OP posts:
Original poster
VettiyaIruken · 30/01/2021 09:50

It's all such a bloody mess!

OP posts:
Hmmph · 30/01/2021 09:50

@Piranesio

It isn't! The EU are just trying to push the blame away from their own fuck up.

And it sees that the UK has a surplus ordered and goes after it. It's complicated by the fact that the UK is merrily getting what it ordered while the same company is saying to the EU, sorry yours might be late because of manufacturing issues in European plants.

So to use your Amazon example, you preorder 10 items from Amazon, your neighbour also preorders 3 but a few months later. At the day of release, you get your 10, but your neighbour gets a "sorry your item is delayed" message. Still not your fault, but you neighbour might want to come to ask if you would let them have one of yours until theirs shows up. Problem is, rather than asking nicely (or perhaps they did first), the neighbour (EU) in this case has jumped on you as you left the house and pinned you against the wall, screaming in your face that your delivery should be theirs.

And they have also now threatened to block access to your shared driveway to stop any more of your deliveries coming.

Even though it was Amazon who didn’t deliver your order and you should be contacting/ complaining to their customer support and not attacking your neighbour.

MarshaBradyo · 30/01/2021 09:51

Ha pretty much op

Thepilotlightsgoneout · 30/01/2021 09:53

If it were the other way round though, we’d be spitting feathers. Imagine if we weren’t getting vaccines we’d ordered and meanwhile the EU was merrily vaccinating anyway at more than three times the rate we were, with vaccines bought from the same company. So I can’t really blame them for being furious.

The thing is, there’s no one to be furious at as it’s just one of those things, but they need find someone to blame.

HappydaysArehere · 30/01/2021 09:53

I did not vote for Brexit and was really upset by the result. However, the image of that German commissioner (I think) shouting that we need to “show them(UK) our weapons “ awoke such memories that I can’t imagine the German people will want to remember. It’s bully boy tactics. Of course we can understand their frustration but trying to cover up their inept ordering strategy by blaming us is beyond the pale. Of course the UK is causing them embarrassment as we are a country who might be doing better at something than them.

Hmmph · 30/01/2021 09:53

Do we have any more manufacturing capability we can offer to Pfizer BioNTech. They are welcome to come and make some of their lovely vaccines in the UK.

nordica · 30/01/2021 09:53

What if you could manage with just one until Amazon can send you the second one at a later date, and in the meantime giving one of yours to your neighbour could save their life? Although your neighbour has been a bit of a CF anyway so maybe you won't be all that upset even if they do die... just better hope you don't get a new neighbour move in who would make your life really shit, though.

Hmmph · 30/01/2021 09:55

@Thepilotlightsgoneout

If it were the other way round though, we’d be spitting feathers. Imagine if we weren’t getting vaccines we’d ordered and meanwhile the EU was merrily vaccinating anyway at more than three times the rate we were, with vaccines bought from the same company. So I can’t really blame them for being furious.

The thing is, there’s no one to be furious at as it’s just one of those things, but they need find someone to blame.

But we’d be blaming Boris for messing up (again) by not ordering vaccines in time and having a really bad contract.
LimitIsUp · 30/01/2021 09:59

@nordica

What if you could manage with just one until Amazon can send you the second one at a later date, and in the meantime giving one of yours to your neighbour could save their life? Although your neighbour has been a bit of a CF anyway so maybe you won't be all that upset even if they do die... just better hope you don't get a new neighbour move in who would make your life really shit, though.
You've lost me Confused
Thepilotlightsgoneout · 30/01/2021 09:59

I have a question! If there was no Brexit and we were still in the EU, would we have been able to strike our own deals the vaccine companies as we had or would we have HAD to be part of any EU deals? Anyone know?

Orangeblossom1977 · 30/01/2021 10:00

Israel has vaccinated the most, with the Pfizer vaccine produced in the EU, with a special agreement regarding giving Pfizer information on it's performance.

I don't see the EU going after Israel. Trying to block their access to Pfizer, as they are trying with the UK.

AstraZeneca are producing their vaccine non-profit. Saying they will give their 'best effort' to supplying the EU. And now the EU are trying to sue them.

TheSockMonster · 30/01/2021 10:00

As far as I understand it, it’s about the EU trying to skip the development curve that comes with stepping up production.

So you order some compost and strawberry plants. Three months later you are enjoying eating your strawberries. Your neighbour places an identical order, 3 months after you, yet gets annoyed their strawberries aren’t ready to eat at the same time.

Or you chip in and crowdfund a new card game. 3 months later enough funds are raised and the card game announces a launch date. Your neighbour decides to place an advance order, then gets pissed off when you get your game first.

Orangeblossom1977 · 30/01/2021 10:01

I have a question! If there was no Brexit and we were still in the EU, would we have been able to strike our own deals the vaccine companies as we had or would we have HAD to be part of any EU deals? Anyone know?

This was mentioned in the Times today. No, even if in the EU the UK could have done its own deals apparently.

I understand Germany has done so - made deals separate to the EU.

meditrina · 30/01/2021 10:02

@nordica

What if you could manage with just one until Amazon can send you the second one at a later date, and in the meantime giving one of yours to your neighbour could save their life? Although your neighbour has been a bit of a CF anyway so maybe you won't be all that upset even if they do die... just better hope you don't get a new neighbour move in who would make your life really shit, though.
What if you were at equal risk of death as your neighbour, and you are both rich and competent enough to have bought the prophylaxis at the same time?

And you had already paid in more than the neighbour to the benevolence scheme that makes sure that those with the same condition but who could not afford to pre-order?

Plus had invested heavily in the 'will sell globally at cost' company - even when it was not clear the product would work - because actually, your benevolence record isn't that bad, even though it does not extend to those just as rich and capable as yourself, who had the same amount of time to prepare for same contingency as yourself.

Orangeblossom1977 · 30/01/2021 10:02

Oh, also another EU country has signed up for the Chinese vaccine. Can't remember who though.

MarshaBradyo · 30/01/2021 10:03

@TheSockMonster

As far as I understand it, it’s about the EU trying to skip the development curve that comes with stepping up production.

So you order some compost and strawberry plants. Three months later you are enjoying eating your strawberries. Your neighbour places an identical order, 3 months after you, yet gets annoyed their strawberries aren’t ready to eat at the same time.

Or you chip in and crowdfund a new card game. 3 months later enough funds are raised and the card game announces a launch date. Your neighbour decides to place an advance order, then gets pissed off when you get your game first.

Sock the strawberry plant makes sense to me too

It’s around the yield which takes time to get running

MarciaDidia · 30/01/2021 10:08

@Orangeblossom1977

I have a question! If there was no Brexit and we were still in the EU, would we have been able to strike our own deals the vaccine companies as we had or would we have HAD to be part of any EU deals? Anyone know?

This was mentioned in the Times today. No, even if in the EU the UK could have done its own deals apparently.

I understand Germany has done so - made deals separate to the EU.

I think you could opt into or out of the EU joint negotiations (and in fact the UK also had that choice and opted out, which some people said was childish and embarrassing). If you opted in, you could not then also negotiate separately for the same vaccine but could negotiate separately for other vaccines not covered by the joint negotiations.
Calmandmeasured1 · 30/01/2021 10:09

Oh, also another EU country has signed up for the Chinese vaccine. Can't remember who though
Hungary?

scissy · 30/01/2021 10:09

@Thepilotlightsgoneout

I have a question! If there was no Brexit and we were still in the EU, would we have been able to strike our own deals the vaccine companies as we had or would we have HAD to be part of any EU deals? Anyone know?
Hungary ordered the Russian vaccine, so EU members were certainly free to sort out their own deals.
stripeyIIIIItscmsfkmf · 30/01/2021 10:11

It's a very oversimplified analogy because the EU isn't asking for vaccines that the UK has already been delivered, it's asking for part of its future supply. It's an ongoing contract dispute.

And rather than your neighbour screaming swear words, it's more like your neighbour starts moaning about how unfair it is and the local media decides to create a huge "you vs. her" campaign to get everyone in the village angry and supporting you and all the villagers fall for it hook line and sinker.

shrill · 30/01/2021 10:11

Ah but drip feed, OP you fail to mention that your order is for nappies and that your neighbour has been slow to act in the past but not as bad as you. This is one time when you could see that share and share alike would be the right thing to do as we are all in this together and by doing so together we might all have a future to look forward to. So, how about being the bigger person, after all you have loads of loo rolls!

Floppywin · 30/01/2021 10:13

The strawberry analogy is spot on - not ordering flat back furniture sat in a factory. It is cultivation of a vaccine and the EU are expecting ready to eat.

MarshaBradyo · 30/01/2021 10:14

@stripeyIIIIItscmsfkmf

It's a very oversimplified analogy because the EU isn't asking for vaccines that the UK has already been delivered, it's asking for part of its future supply. It's an ongoing contract dispute.

And rather than your neighbour screaming swear words, it's more like your neighbour starts moaning about how unfair it is and the local media decides to create a huge "you vs. her" campaign to get everyone in the village angry and supporting you and all the villagers fall for it hook line and sinker.

Did you see the German MEP take on how UK, and US for some reason, should suffer?
LimitIsUp · 30/01/2021 10:14

On Israel they are now considering vaccinating their 16-18 year olds so they can sit their exams! Dr Sarah Jarvis suggested that they might wish to reconsider this when there are vaccine scarcities elsewhere

stripeyIIIIItscmsfkmf · 30/01/2021 10:16

Did you see the German MEP take on how UK, and US for some reason, should suffer?

I'm not sure what you're referring to, do you have a link?