Can anyone quickly sum up what the EU dispute all about?

[2boysand1princess]

I’ve been so busy recently with wfh, homeschooling 2 primary kids and looking after a baby etc that I’ve not been keep up to date with the news. What’s the dispute over the vaccines and EU all about? Is there an obstacle for us getting the Oxford vaccine into the county now? If so why?
Thanks

@AlecTrevelyan006

www.thenational.scot/news/19050137.fact-check-claim-nicola-sturgeon-taking-eus-side-uk-astrazeneca-row/

LOL

that is the most biased 'fact check' I have ever read. Was it written by the SNP's press officer?

Double lols What a ridiculous article

I think what has happened is that AZ cannot fulfill it's contractual obligations. When similar happened to Pfizer, all deliveries were reduced. AZ is not treating all customers equally.

AZ is not owned by the UK. It is an AngloSwedish company with stockholders (that are currently sueing it in the USA, for a previous error).

I do not get how the UK do not understand the EUs frustration.

Frustration is one thing. Forced inspections and export bans another.

@LetItGoGo I think inspections are normal enough - particularly whena company has flagged a massive production issue.

Export bans are only in the media. EU at pains to state this.

@SummerBody1

The contracts are complex. The UK made investments in AZ’s supply chain and worked with them a full three months earlier to increase yields and to get everything working.

The EU came along later and did the same sort of thing, but three months later and for one seventh of the cost!

AZ is giving its vaccine away at cost, no profit. Therefore the EU is getting out what it chose to put in. It the oldest business saying: cost, time, quality, pick two! The EU wanted all three at once which is always impossible. Quality could not be compromised, they refused to pay what others have (the US and UK) and started 3 months behind.

I’d say, they are getting exactly what they bargained for in the contract.

What a mess the EU has made of this. Thank goodness we (the UK government) had the the foresight to set up the contracts and have the funding in place.

Oh and Macron can fuck off as well.

There are a few additional aspects putting pressure on the EU eg i
there was already discontent between EU countries over negotiating the vaccines and the parameters the EU imposed on member states. Germany was unhappy they couldn't negotiate additional vaccines for themselves. Hungary opted for vaccines from Russia and China to try to circumvent the EU tardiness. Some German newspapers started saying the entire shambles made Brexit seem positive.

On top of all that, the global business community has now made it clear that they are very unhappy with the EU threatening to hold vaccines and components hostage within their borders until the EU gets what it wants. You can't run businesses if there is a block threatening supply chains, distribution networks and logistics.

@SusansSassySidePony

There are a few additional aspects putting pressure on the EU eg i there was already discontent between EU countries over negotiating the vaccines and the parameters the EU imposed on member states. Germany was unhappy they couldn't negotiate additional vaccines for themselves. Hungary opted for vaccines from Russia and China to try to circumvent the EU tardiness. Some German newspapers started saying the entire shambles made Brexit seem positive.

On top of all that, the global business community has now made it clear that they are very unhappy with the EU threatening to hold vaccines and components hostage within their borders until the EU gets what it wants. You can't run businesses if there is a block threatening supply chains, distribution networks and logistics.

Very well put.

I've posted this on a few threads because it explains the AZ-UK Story:

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/29/we-had-to-go-it-alone-how-the-uk-got-ahead-in-the-covid-vaccine-race

Strange times when the EU does what we though Trump would!

What they need to do is getting more factories producing the vaccine. They should be putting all their efforts on that.
It is a massive reduction in supplies what they are facing. I understand their deep discontent, with AZ.
They should have not brought UK into it at all, neither threaten with anything. USA is activating a law that can force factories to produce what they need, in this case, vaccines. So it looks like the best is indeed go for production inside each country as much as possible, to avoid all these issues. Which have left us all feeling quite shocked, and this is just the beginning!
They need to go back to each country, find pharmaceutical facilities that have the reactors and packing facilities,and start making the vaccines. Now 4 of them, soon to have 5! The scientist have been impressive on the speed they have worked at this!
Now politicians and lawyers have to find the way to speed things up, and do it right...... as per usual, drama follows when it comes to politicians having to work on anything!
And... we have to vaccinate the whole world, not only UK and EU. Is this going to happen? What politicians are good at is making us all doubt that anything, whatever that is, can actually happen! Where are the leaders that used to make people feel like mountains can be moved?

Sounds like BS to me SummerBody.

They are clearly pressurising even if they are well practised in throwing up a bureaucratic smokescreen.

International cooperation is the way to go here. Not wasting energy on this legal flak to cover logistical errors.

@2boysand1princess

I’ve been so busy recently with wfh, homeschooling 2 primary kids and looking after a baby etc that I’ve not been keep up to date with the news. What’s the dispute over the vaccines and EU all about? Is there an obstacle for us getting the Oxford vaccine into the county now? If so why? Thanks

There's a good BBC explainer at www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52380823 if you'd like a bit more depth than the brilliant Take That/Wedding Dress analogy

Israel has vaccinated the most, using the Pfizer vaccine produced in the EU, due to some kind of agreement where they give reports to Pfizer for a reduced cost of the vaccine.

Interested that the EU are not going after Israel in the same way, demanding the vaccine 'back' etc.

@Orangeblossom1977
Israel has vaccinated the most per population but actual numbers lower than us- it’s a small country of only 9 million

@SummerBody1
And you're not remotely concerned by the EU threatening to create a hard border on the island of Ireland? This is acceptable to you, after 5 years of negotiating to precisely prevent that ever happening

We understand the frustration but its not our place to get involved in an EU pissing match some supplies of the vaccine are produced here why should we send them over there what benefits do we gain from this?

Basically

I do not get how the UK do not understand the EUs frustration.

We do but we're very alarmed by the speed with which they have escalated things. Their response has been unecessarily aggressive. They could have kept the contract dispute private and negotiated a solution with AZ which might have involved asking for UK help. Instead they behaved recklessly and impulsively, doing themselves and confidence in the AZ vaccine great damage in the process, none of which is good news for us as their neighbours.

Israel has vaccinated the most, using the Pfizer vaccine produced in the EU, due to some kind of agreement where they give reports to Pfizer for a reduced cost of the vaccine.

I don't always approve of the Israeli governments actions but they have been really clever and played a blinder here. Their data will also be incredibly helpful for the global vaccination program.

I do not get how the UK do not understand the EUs frustration

It's not that, it is that the EU lashed out blaming the UK of 'starting a vaccine war' to cover up their own problems with getting vaccines and producing them (delays to their own factories have caused problems as well)

Wait in reading the contract section 5.4 says that the U.K. factories are included as part of the EU for contractual purposes. So yes the vaccines should be fairly distributed from all factories no?
Or am I reading it wrong

You're reading it wrong according to lawyers who have parsed the document. There are two clauses which are important regarding AZ provision to the UK and any potential impact on the EU. You need to read those clauses in conjunction not just choose one. Then there is also the BRE proviso.
This isn't anything to do with the UK but the EU is hoping to distract from its own failures and overshadow the criticisms coming from its own members. It's surprising that anyone is falling for it but a very small group of steadfast Remainers are still trying to spin this into a rehash of Brexit.
Everyone viewing it clearly for what it is, is appalled with the EU and that includes the US; the global business community; the pharmaceutical and research sectors; the medical and health sectors; Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, etc.
The EU hoped to distract its members from its shortcomings and instead highlighted its hugely concerning behaviour on a global stage. Even Barnier is appalled at how they have mismanaged this.

@Marinaloves

It's a legal mess.

Para 5.1 says the "initial european doses" will come from EU factories, unless there's agreement to expand that.

Para 5.4 that "the vaccine" will come from EU (which for this paragraph alone means EU +UK)

There's no definition I can see of what "initial European doses" means, and whether or not these are included in "the vaccine" as described in 5.4.

In other words, its a total legal ballsup and whoever drafted it should be fired.

The courts, I suspect, could happily argue the point for years, to the great benefit of all the lawyers involved, but without generating a single additional vaccine.

The EU would be far more sensible to work with AZ to say, "You have a production issue. How do we help? What resources can we divert to scale up?" That, at least, might get them more vaccine sooner.

It's the EU's production problems with delays in their factories, linked to delays in agreements, which is the main issue. (as to why the AZ production is running low in the EU) not the UK factories.