There's another vaccine! And we've got 60 million shots! And it's made here!

[HelloThereMeHearties]

And it's effective against the new UK variant!

And it will really wind the EU up!!!

Novavax has passed its stage three trial, now hopefully the MHRA will approve it!!!

To clarify what the CEO of AZ said regarding supplies. The vaccines are being supplied in different factories, (some supplying europe) have had poor yields, so that is all written into the contract.

@Waspnest

I don’t think this is about U.K. leaving for EU

I think it sort of is though. I don't see the EU demanding that AZ vaccines from the SII are sent to the EU to fulfil orders. We've only just sorted a trade deal, and the EU are under pressure to show that leaving is a really bad idea.

It all depends on the contracts. Hopefully AZ can redact commercially sensitive bits and publish the rest.

I have been shocked by the unprofessional behaviour of some EU officials.

The EU know they messed up. Vaccination programmes in Spain and France have had to be paused due to lack of supply. Apparently the press in many European countries is being scathing about them. Add in the growing unrest with restrictions in parts of the continent and you can see why the EU would want to divert blame. And Perfidious Albion is as good a bogeyman as any.

I hope the EU doesn't fall. Maybe slowly the institution itself will become less influential and individual sovereignty will dominate but for the sake of EU citizens I would hope that happens slowly, not due to a world catastrophe. Everyone's got enough to deal with at the moment.

Why do some people have to be so rude? There were actually some interesting discussions going on here before you and @FitzsimmonsMarvel turned up.

Because you are spouting unsubstantiated conspiracy theorist nonsense.

@Ihatefish I am not ‘making an argument’ I am stating facts. The other poster was pulling out rubbish conspiracy theories debunked months ago which were used to make people think the pandemic is not as serious as it was.

@LouiseBelchersBunnyEars it seems that the EU are examining whether with a shortfall of Astra vaccine they can have more of the Pfizer vaccine. They have signed contracts for tranches of Pfizer similar to how the U.K. have. Astra and U.K. are saying they can’t give anything produced in U.K. to EU so EU are going to see if Pfizer will fulfil more of the EU order of that vaccine and less to U.K. given U.K. have plenty of Astra!

No doubt they are looking at their Pfizer contracts and seeing if they can get more to get vaccinations off the ground. It’s not ideal to revert to this kind of nationalism but I didn’t think it was helped by Gove coming out yesterday and saying they can’t have any of ‘our’ vaccine which strongly implies vaccines produced in U.K. are ‘our’ vaccines (which they are not as EU has paid for Astra vaccines) and now EU moving to saying well then the ones produced in EU are ‘EU’ vaccines ( which they are not as the U.K. has paid for Pfizer vaccines). The whole thing is descending into a farce really.

@samanthawashington
Re the head of Astra saying it’s a contract thing I would wonder if it is given EU are so keen to release the contract to show it’s not and Astra won’t let them. If it’s as easy and clear cut as Astra say why not let the EU release it. They’ll be shown they are totally wrong publicly and that’ll be the end of it. Again you haven’t seen the contract so you can’t say it ‘clearly states’

Contract is being published!!!

www.repubblica.it/esteri/2021/01/29/news/von_der_leyen_il_contratto_con_astrazeneca_sara_pubblico_oggi_-284749823/

Converts to English with google.

static.gedidigital.it/repubblica/pdf/2021/cronaca/apa_astrazeneca.pdf

The PDF link is the contract.

There is useful chat on the contract on the guardian coronavirus live feed

It’s clearly a lawyer’s job but I hope this will come down to contractual obligations not a wider political spat

@Hopeisnotastrategy you mean you were enjoying your echo chamber of spouting incorrect information and no one calling you out on being incorrect and actually spreading misinformation? Im sorry but it’s not rude to tell someone they are spreading lies.

As I said your article is from BEFORE the death criteria were changed. It even says in your article that the England approach is not standardised with N. Ireland, Wales etc so if you had even bothered to look it up you would see they are all standardised now and the U.K. deaths at that time were revised downward by circa 5,000

[quote FitzsimmonsMarvel]@samanthawashington can you share your copy of the contract with us all given that it ‘clearly states’ what you are saying?

The way I look at this issue simply is that there are two companies who are responsible for feeding their staff. Company A (U.K.) order 200 loaves of bread and pays for these in advance. Company A orders in January and expects to get 100 loaves in Feb and 100 loaves in March. They get their 100 loaves in Feb. Company B (EU) comes along in February and orders 200 loaves of bread. They pay for them in advance and are told that 100 of them will be ready to collect in march. March arrives and company A is told they can only have 25 loaves as there was a production problem in the bakery. It turns out that even though the bakery had 125 loaves they decided to give 100 to Company A and the leftover to Company B. Company B is unhappy as they paid for 100 loaves, they were told to collect them in March yet they only get 25. Given everyone is hungry company B is unhappy and thinks as both companies paid for 100 and both companies were told they could pick them up in March that a production issue should have meant that each company got 65 and the shortfall was made up in the next order. Especially as company A has already been given 100 loaves in the first place. To me company B has a good point.[/quote]
I don't need to quote the entire contract. I'll just say it says 'best efforts' The full interview is here. Your analogy is bollox in relation to vaccine production may I say.

www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/

Oh God we need a lawyer!

@samanthawashington yes the interview with the head of Astra - which tells us what? He says one thing the EU say another. It would be good for your critical thinking skills to consider that you shouldn’t believe everything you read.

I see from another poster that the actual contract is being published now which is good. Hopefully will help sort the whole mess out.

@DamnUserName21

Contract is being published!!!

www.repubblica.it/esteri/2021/01/29/news/von_der_leyen_il_contratto_con_astrazeneca_sara_pubblico_oggi_-284749823/

Converts to English with google.

No need to translate. Second PDF at ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_302

I am not a lawyer but am skimming it now. Para 6.2 is interesting!

Hopefully now the contract is out we will be able to see exactly what’s going on without al the conjecture

Interesting article here highlights how explosive this could get, not least for the EU with their already existing vaccine shortage, should other countries (in U.K. and outside Europe) take a tit for tat approach. EU would appear to be burning all their bridges in one fell swoop.

www.politico.eu/article/eu-brandishes-export-ban-to-claim-dibs-on-vaccine-astrazeneca-pfizer/

The lawyers will need to be on this!

5.1 indicates production will be ‘within the EU’ so then you would think the Eu don’t have claim to vaccines produced in U.K. factories but then 5.4 states that the EU includes the U.K. indicating EU should be supplied from U.K. factories. Then it states uK is only included within 5.4

So not clear cut at all!

@FitzsimmonsMarvel

Capacity Limitations. In the event AstraZeneca's ability to fulfill its obligations under this Agreement is impeded by a competing agreement entered into by or on behalf of the Commission, AstraZeneca shall promptly inform the Commission. While AstraZeneca shall continue to use Best Reasonable Efforts to engage with its own contract manufacturers and suppliers to utilize the capacity and/or components, the Commission will assist in finding a mutually acceptable solution for this Agreement and the competing agreement. To the extent AstraZeneca’s performance under this Agreement is impeded by any such competing agreements, AstraZeneca shall not be deemed in breach of this Agreement as a result of any such delay due to the aforementioned competing agreement(s)

Pretty clear from the contract in question.

The AZ /EU contract if there is any doubt

@samanthawashington see 5.4

Well at the time the contract was signed we were still in the transition period so maybe we were THEN treated as part of the EU? Things have changed.

@FitzsimmonsMarvel

and AstraZeneca shall use its Best Reasonable Efforts

what are you not understanding about this? They have made the best reasonable effort unless the EU can prove otherwise.

@samanthawashington what are you not understanding about how the EU are saying they should get doses from U.K. factories as they have not had a production issue and are not affected by best efforts basis...

It’s quite interesting, as clearly when signed the EU included the U.K., but doesn’t now.
So it seems the issue is when they say that it will come from within the EU, does this still include the U.K. or not.

I personally think anyone who believes this has nothing to do with Brexit are being pretty naive, maybe willfully so