Parents - how do you feel about teaching unions?

[Musicaldilemma]

Following various exchanges in real life and on here, I was wondering what other parents currently feel and think of teaching unions? Do you know a lot about them? What do you feel their role is and should be in this pandemic? If you are able to, please clarify if you are a parent married to a teacher or teacher parent. Or just a parent like myself with a few friends who are teachers. I was interested to see that teaching unions in Switzerland, for example, really pushed the message that schools must be and stay open for children’s mental health.

I'm a parent not a teacher. The teachers I know are all exhausted. I support unions in principle and haven't really seen anything specific that the teacher ones have said that I disagree with, so I support them too.

And you know, that EIS letter is a good example of a teaching union standing up for its members.

@thecatfromjapan. Think you might have me confused with someone else. I’ve never said teachers were lazy or advocated for fully live lessons. I’ve continually pointed out that unions are prioritising their members desires over providing a semi-adequate educational provision for children. You can argue that it’s justified to do that in the circumstances but just don’t dress it up that it’s for the good of the pupils.

Have you seen what the NEU have advocated, consistently, from March?
Safer schools, so that schools could remain open - providing not just adequate but excellent education, for every child.
With a comprehensive outline of what that would entail, drawn from best-practice in other countries and scientific advice.

That demand was ignored back when it could be actually implemented.
And here we are. Just as predicted. Schools now on-line, parents struggling, many dead, the NHS struggling.

It's a disgrace.

There's a lot hidden in your word 'comfort'. Most of all, most sadly of all, I think it means you're choosing the wrong target.

And I think you're not looking at what 'unions' have demanded in its entirety.

As for non-live lessons, which is what you focus on, I think Noble has probably hit the nail in the head there.

It's impossible to argue that there isn't a danger that safeguarding and professional guidelines won't be breached with regard to social media when an absolutely irresponsible group of adults have actually, really done just that.

I think you should be extremely angry at that, frankly. Not a group of professionals who have insisted on their right not to be violated in such a way.

What part of my post do you object to? Unions are prioritising teachers - that’s their role and what teachers pay their subs for. Normally it’s not contentious as the two groups align - what is good for teachers often coincides with what is good for pupils. At present it’s not and unions are putting teachers wishes first over pupils education.

@Bartlet

What part of my post do you object to? Unions are prioritising teachers - that’s their role and what teachers pay their subs for. Normally it’s not contentious as the two groups align - what is good for teachers often coincides with what is good for pupils. At present it’s not and unions are putting teachers wishes first over pupils education.

What part of schools being safe doesn't benefit children (and the families they could take Covid home to)?

I read the unions long lists of excuses why teachers shouldn't teach remotely in the first lockdown. I lost all respect for them at that point. It was a dreadfully short sighted and harmful approach to take

@saraclara. I haven’t mentioned returning to school. I’ve talked about the quality of online schooling provision.

There is an assumption implied there that live lessons are what’s best for children.

The evidence doesn’t support this, and indeed there will be many children who miss out if lessons are live.

Again. I haven’t advocated for fully live learning - some people might and it is in place in many private schools but I didn’t mention it. I’ve suggested that a blend of live learning, recorded lessons and independent workbook learning is better than entirely slide decks for pupils. Unions have objected to that - not because it’s better for kids but because they’re representing their members.

And what do you think of the parenting group who were recording teachers’ live lessons to pass around twitter?

I don’t really understand what the issue is if nobody is on camera? Is it possible to record a live lesson when the presenter has disabled the function? People could be recording/ listening to me doing my job remotely, but what’s the problem if I’m doing it to a reasonable standard? somebody could very well record you going about your daily business. The kids record teachers and pupils at school even though they’re not allowed. They get disciplined if found out. There’s legitimate concerns and there’s finding reasons because you don’t want to do it. Live teaching is great for lots of kids, shame to deny the millions who would benefit. The majority of parents don’t have time to watch and even if they do they appreciate the effort, even if the lesson isn’t 100% amazing

Is there any scientific evidence for live or other types of lesson whatsoever?

@BungleandGeorge

I don’t really understand what the issue is if nobody is on camera? Is it possible to record a live lesson when the presenter has disabled the function? People could be recording/ listening to me doing my job remotely, but what’s the problem if I’m doing it to a reasonable standard? somebody could very well record you going about your daily business. The kids record teachers and pupils at school even though they’re not allowed. They get disciplined if found out. There’s legitimate concerns and there’s finding reasons because you don’t want to do it. Live teaching is great for lots of kids, shame to deny the millions who would benefit. The majority of parents don’t have time to watch and even if they do they appreciate the effort, even if the lesson isn’t 100% amazing

We've already had OP's of MNers judging their child's teacher on a live lesson, and asking MNers what they think,

It only takes one vindictive parent to record a lesson and misuse it online and it wouldn't make any difference if the rest of the parents behaved and thought it was great. The damage would be done.

Yet still many many teachers are teaching live or video'd lessons and putting themselves out there.

@BungleandGeorge

Is there any scientific evidence for live or other types of lesson whatsoever?

educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/covid-19-resources/best-evidence-on-supporting-students-to-learn-remotely/

Teaching quality is more important than how lessons are delivered
Ensuring access to technology is key, especially for disadvantaged pupils
Peer interactions can provide motivation and improve learning outcomes
Supporting pupils to work independently can improve learning outcomes
Different approaches to remote learning suit different types of content and pupils

@noblegiraffe. Of course I don’t agree with that. I do think the teachers unions have seized on it as an excuse though. Not sure what’s so different about teaching in other parts of the U.K. who have accepted live or recorded sessions.

What I’m pointing out and no teacher seems to admit it is that pupils in Scotland are getting a substandard educational provision because the teachers position is being prioritised over what is best for kids.

the teachers position is being prioritised over what is best for kids.

Again you are assuming that live lessons are best for kids. See research above that doesn’t support this.

I teach live lessons. My DD doesn’t have any live lessons. I have fed back to the school that I don’t want them for her, so clearly I don’t think she is getting a substandard education. It’s not as clear cut as you are making out.

I don’t understand how they can record the lesson? You can’t deny huge amounts of children a medium which is very useful for them because of an absolutely tiny amount of misuse. Their child will presumably face exclusion and they could potentially be charged with a criminal offence.
I didn’t see the other thread but I’m struggling to see the enormous harm that can be done if there’s no faces on screen?
The entire world has gone digital, many of us have faces on screens all over the place

I am very left wing, and yet recently I find myself wishing Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister.

That is more or less how I feel about the NEU right now.

Very grateful!

The only ones speaking sense a lot of the time.

Schools need to be safe and sustainable.

Simple common sense.

Our government is useless, wish the NEU could take over tbh.

@noblegiraffe. Great that your daughter learns best by reading slides herself. Is it really beyond you to realise that solely independent reading is not the best way for many many children to learn?

@BungleandGeorge so you read the posts about the parents' group that was planning to record them and put them on the internet for the world to judge? And the legal letter that had to go out to threaten legal action if they did?

With people like that out there, you're being very naive. Also it would be next to impossible to prove who'd uploaded them, and the damage is done by the time any action was taken.

Great that your daughter learns best by reading slides herself.

Never said that she did. There are other options to live lessons.

A lot of children hate recorded lessons as they cannot retain the information from the video. For differentiation reasons some prefer to work from a PowerPoint and resources.

And yes, I have experience with SEND students who are struggling with recordings