Parents - how do you feel about teaching unions?

[Musicaldilemma]

Following various exchanges in real life and on here, I was wondering what other parents currently feel and think of teaching unions? Do you know a lot about them? What do you feel their role is and should be in this pandemic? If you are able to, please clarify if you are a parent married to a teacher or teacher parent. Or just a parent like myself with a few friends who are teachers. I was interested to see that teaching unions in Switzerland, for example, really pushed the message that schools must be and stay open for children’s mental health.

I can’t the same about Thatcher recently!

My DH is an ITU consultant. I was so, so worried back in March when they did t have the right PPE. We literally had to check our life insurance policies, wills etc. Every time he went out to work, I knew he was dealing with airways of covid patients.

It wasn’t safe, but not for one minute due his Union suggest he ought not to go to work. Certain professions have a job to do, they are part of the fabric of society, they can’t just refuse to work - and deserve respect for it.

Until the pandemic, I thought teachers were in that category. The opinions I’ve seen on MN suggest to me that they aren’t willing to take risk to do their jobs. Unlike police, firefighters, doctors, nurses - all of whom face actual risk to life. I no longer consider teachers part of the fabric of society, I’ve lost respect, and much of that has stemmed from the unions.

Well reading slide decks in a void is the reality for many children in Scotland at the moment. I do accept that fully live lessons may not be achievable or desirable but what the teachers stance in Scotland has meant is that kids are getting no interactive, video, live or recorded lessons.

aren’t willing to take risk to do their jobs.

Who the hell was teaching my kids from September then?

@CountessFrog

I can’t the same about Thatcher recently!

My DH is an ITU consultant. I was so, so worried back in March when they did t have the right PPE. We literally had to check our life insurance policies, wills etc. Every time he went out to work, I knew he was dealing with airways of covid patients.

It wasn’t safe, but not for one minute due his Union suggest he ought not to go to work. Certain professions have a job to do, they are part of the fabric of society, they can’t just refuse to work - and deserve respect for it.

Until the pandemic, I thought teachers were in that category. The opinions I’ve seen on MN suggest to me that they aren’t willing to take risk to do their jobs. Unlike police, firefighters, doctors, nurses - all of whom face actual risk to life. I no longer consider teachers part of the fabric of society, I’ve lost respect, and much of that has stemmed from the unions.

My daughter is a nurse on what is basically a Covid hospice ward. They had 12 deaths in 36 hours last week. She has only a blue mask, disposable apron and gloves.

Yet it didn't stop her being angry for her teacher sister, when she was having to teach full classes of unmasked kids with no PPE.

This is not about a race to the bottom. Hospitals should be doing all they can to keep staff and patients safe, and schools should be allowed to do the same for their staff and pupils. But the government wasn't allowing them to take the safer options of rota'd half classes and everyone being masked.

@Bartlet I don't understand people like you at all. You are so angry at the unions and why they are more worried about their members than they are the children- why is your anger not directed at the government? They are the ones who suspended the curriculum last year? They are the ones who have persistently underfunded schools? They are the ones who made promise after promise about helping children by giving the most vulnerable kids technology to help them but then didn't deliver? I could list so many ways the government have failed our children over the past year and for many years before, but yet no, we have people on here determined to make unions (and teachers) the issue.

Honestly, it's so frustrating. If every parent who has whined on here over the last 10 months about vulnerable children or unions had worked together and directed those efforts into campaigning to the government for better funding, facilities and standards for all children then maybe we would be in a better situation than we are now. I worked in education for ten years and (other than the teaching staff) no one ever gave a shit about vulnerable children. So for everyone to start playing that card now is sickening. And as for certain individuals saying they've lost respect for the unions...well who cares? Unless you are a teacher than why would you even need respect for them. They don't feature in your life in any way. They don't hold any power, and they've been bloody useless during this whole saga. So quite frankly, your high and mighty "I've lost all respect for unions" means absolutely fuck all. No one cares.

People are so fucking thick if they honestly believe unions are the issue in this whole situation.

[quote saraclara]@BungleandGeorge so you read the posts about the parents' group that was planning to record them and put them on the internet for the world to judge? And the legal letter that had to go out to threaten legal action if they did?

With people like that out there, you're being very naive. Also it would be next to impossible to prove who'd uploaded them, and the damage is done by the time any action was taken.[/quote]
I already said I didn’t. I’m still not sure how they would actually record them or is it an idle threat? It’s not impossible at all to trace who has uploaded material to the internet. If the film isn’t altered I still don’t see an enormous problem, it’s a school lesson what content could be so bad? The issue of image alteration, faces on screen I understand. I genuinely don’t understand the concern of having lessons listened into.

I support unions in general, and don't have much real info on teaching unions. I do think individual teachers have come across very differently to supermarket workers, nursery teachers, carers, factory workers etc, and not in a good way.
As for live lessons these have been an absolute godsend this time round. There no way my high school dc would be coping if we went back to how it was in the first lockdown. Not everything is about primary school children. It's still really hard to get them to work and do my full time job, but at least there is structure and engagement, to a degree.
As for lessons being recorded/critiqued-I can hand on heart say that (as someone who regularly presents to large numbers of people )if I was confident I was doing my job well, I wouldn't give a flying fuck. What's that word they are always telling the kids to have in school? Resilience?

I’m still not sure how they would actually record them or is it an idle threat?

Obviously deleted now but I’m pretty sure they were posted on twitter inviting comment.

Incredibly shitty behaviour.

If every parent who has whined on here over the last 10 months about vulnerable children or unions had worked together and directed those efforts into campaigning to the government for better funding, facilities and standards for all children then maybe we would be in a better situation than we are now.

To be fair many parents DO campaign and agitate for all sorts of things to help vulnerable children, and have done for years. You mustn't assume that no one does.

@Snarfblaff. Who said people can’t think that both the government and unions have let kids down? As someone said below it’s a triad - government, teachers unions and children. Both the government AND the teachers unions are prioritising their interests over the kids.

@noblegiraffe
Thank you for posting the link to the review of remote teaching, it was an interesting read. They do point out that it doesn’t replicate current conditions. a lot of the studies were done in higher education and the ones that weren’t found different results for secondary and higher education, virtually nothing for primary. Looks like only one study specifically looked more at live teaching. I think what they’re saying is that there’s no evidence live is superior but no evidence that any other method of teaching is superior either. I guess an objective direct comparison of effectiveness would be near impossible. Which is best depends on the student and the subject matter etc which seems a balanced approach to me. Some live teaching, some other methods, a compromise.

It also depends on whether the kids can access the live lessons at the time.

The government’s failure to deliver laptops as promised is an issue, but also many families only have one device or the broadband can’t support heavy use.

A live lesson is no use if you can’t attend.

@noblegiraffe

I’m still not sure how they would actually record them or is it an idle threat?

Obviously deleted now but I’m pretty sure they were posted on twitter inviting comment.

Incredibly shitty behaviour.

Absolutely agree with you there, quite sad that anyone has enough time on their hands to be that invested in it all. I wonder if they have jobs. I’m personally very grateful for the teachers who have taught live as I think it’s made a real difference. I don’t expect perfection, I’m not really interested in listening in even if I had time. None of us is perfect, all just doing what we can in less than perfect circumstances

I am a parent with a few acquaintances who are teachers. I get updates from NEU as J spent time researching CAGs etc last year.
I have no beef with the unions and I think Teachers are amazing and doing the best they can under impossible circumstances.
They are constantly blames for poor provision during last lockdown but the curriculum was suspended.
Provision this time us definitely better.

@CountessFrog

I can’t the same about Thatcher recently!

My DH is an ITU consultant. I was so, so worried back in March when they did t have the right PPE. We literally had to check our life insurance policies, wills etc. Every time he went out to work, I knew he was dealing with airways of covid patients.

It wasn’t safe, but not for one minute due his Union suggest he ought not to go to work. Certain professions have a job to do, they are part of the fabric of society, they can’t just refuse to work - and deserve respect for it.

Until the pandemic, I thought teachers were in that category. The opinions I’ve seen on MN suggest to me that they aren’t willing to take risk to do their jobs. Unlike police, firefighters, doctors, nurses - all of whom face actual risk to life. I no longer consider teachers part of the fabric of society, I’ve lost respect, and much of that has stemmed from the unions.

I have been in school teaching full time since June and am still in now. I caught covid from my school. I think I am stepping up and taking as much risk as any other keyworker.

I have a year 12 student with 5 younger siblings. He has a laptop... but he is never in live lessons because he's letting them use it for theirs. Last time we spoke, he was doing my lessons from the recordings in the wee small hours.
Incidentally, my union hasn't banned me from teaching live or from recording my lessons, both of which I do because it suits me. But they would absolutely back me if I felt I couldn't.
I'm lucky... I have a space to work undisturbed, I've been doing the job a long time, I'm pretty tech savvy. My NQTs, though, are very young and inexperienced - they didn't get a full year of training - and one lives in a shared house. If she was unhappy to teach live, then her union would support that. That's what they're for.

Oh and our primary school are doing live lessons as it works for our demographic.

How many of the parents bleating on voted tory in 2019?

someone must have. They have an 80 seat majority!

Education and the NHS were on their knees before brexit and covid.

Where were all these concerned parents then????

Not a teacher BTW
Just sickened at what this govt is getting away with and totally staggered at who us getting the blame

I have a very low opinion of the teachers unions now. My view is anything to do with the government and everything to do with what I've witnessed union leaders say and do. They are very anti child. Quite despicable.

No I have never ever voted Tory.

I also have a low opinion of the government. They say that they are prioritising school, but they aren't really. They haven't done/tried everything they could. They haven't done enough.

Have a low opinion of the Labour and other parties now too, they haven't held the government accountable enough over children's education and well being.

Parents and children have been shit on from a great height by the government and the unions.

All those who say there was no other way, there's always a way.

The only people who've gone up in my estimations are my child's school who do appear to genuinely have children's interests at heart.

Sadly the lack of an effective opposition is a huge problem

In my opinion, which is what is being asked for, teachers have continually compared their own risk with that of doctors and nurses on covid wards.

Another example of it above.

In my opinion also, they have been very keen to close schools in order to avoid any risk. And schools are not ‘open.’ They are ‘closed to most children.’ Every single teacher providing lessons to my child is at home. And they are doing a bloody marvellous job, I have to say, and it looks much more difficult than their real job, so I expect they will be as keen as the rest of us for it to end.

But the risk of being in school is not comparable to that of staff on covid wards.

The only teacher I know who contracted covid actually caught it from her deputy head teacher, who caught it from his son returning from university for the weekend. It’s a while ago now.

I realise other teachers have caught it from kids. But my point is, the fact that she contracted it from a staff member has been lost in ‘the noise.’ I saw a colleague of hers last weekend out walking. She said the staff are very reluctant to return to school without being vaccinated. Being clinical, I feel they ought to be vaccinated next, after vulnerable groups. She disagreed with me, citing that staff are vulnerable to infection from ‘the fucking kids’ (her words) and using her colleague as an example. I couldn’t even be bothered to speak to her. I know her colleague was not infected by a ‘fucking kid’ but from her own deputy head.

Does rather cloud my opinion.

@countessfrog, so are you saying that you are really not able to see that one person's (unacceptable) attitude does should not paint the entire profession with the same brush?

And no, teachers have not "compared their risk with doctors and nurses on Covid wards." This issue has come up when people have consistently said, as in fact you just have, "well, clinical staff are just getting on with it, " the answer to which has been, "well they do at least have some mitigations in place; school staff have none."
But then that becomes twisted by those who wish to use it to further their teacher-bashing agenda.

I’m not sure why people refer to a Tory government, as though that is part of the problem.

In Wales, there is a Labour government. Their education system is in an even worse mess. At this stage in the game, they still don’t even have minimum standards of remote learning set out.

As a result, there are still schools in Wales providing next to nothing in terms of remote provision.

Is that what the anti-Tory voters would prefer for England?

Teachers’ unions are there to lobby for higher pay and better conditions for their members. That is their role (like all unions). This is perfectly legal. It has absolutely nothing to do with what is best for children, though.