The EARLIEST schools will open is 8th March!!!

[dingledongle]

I cannot believe this!

Stunned!

My kids have lost one year of school and are going to be paying for this for decades to come

Someone above said the chance of children getting very sick is low.

13% of younger children and 15% Of older children get long Covid. Sometimes after an initially mild illness.

We need to be more aware of this whilst also remembering others are less ill. One on eight is a larger number than I feel they make out.

Summary it one study on long Covid in first tweet, link to study in second tweet

twitter.com/Dr2NisreenAlwan/status/1352328791662751745

Summary on ons study

Predictive text is my nemesis!!!

@Cheesecats

Someone above said the chance of children getting very sick is low.

13% of younger children and 15% Of older children get long Covid. Sometimes after an initially mild illness.

We need to be more aware of this whilst also remembering others are less ill. One on eight is a larger number than I feel they make out.

It doesn't stop them carrying the virus and infecting other people. You could vaccinate all children and refuse access to school for parents who won't vaccinate their children, and all you get is more children infected, carrying the virus, and infecting other people.

@bumbleymummy

“ I am merely pointing out that you do not need qualifications to succeed”

No, you don’t. ‘Succeeding’ is subjective anyway. What I disagreed with you on is your statement that ‘qualifications don’t get you jobs’ when in actual fact, they do. Certain jobs do require certain qualifications and will not be considered for those jobs without them. No matter what other life skills you may have.

You are wrong.

There is probably less that 1% of jobs that require an academic qualification which is predicated upon a child going to school and leaving with founding qualifications.

I have already acknowledged that school qualifications open doors and smooth the path to university, and that university degrees open door in some employment department filtering systems.

And as you say yourself, success is a subjective term and some find success in being a good parent, running their own business or competing is sports or whatever. None of those things require qualifications either.

So if you are going to be pedantic and pull apart my post, lets be specific and say, 'for 99% of children formal school qualifications are not required for success in life.' So maybe parents should not be anxious and stressed about their kid's lack of school attendance, maybe anxieties and stresses should not be passed onto our children, maybe our children should be shown the best things the future can hold for them instead of the worst things we can imagine for them, and maybe this is more about parents wanting kids out of their hair than wanting to adapt to the world around them and move on constructively.

I’m not wrong and you’re pulling that 1% figure out of thin air. We can agree to differ though 😊

@bumbleymummy

I’m not wrong and you’re pulling that 1% figure out of thin air. We can agree to differ though 😊

Do you have any examples of jobs where there is not a route into them for children who do not have highschool qualifications? Do you know of any degree that you cannot get without formal highschool qualifications? Do you know of any situation where an employer will take academic qualification over demonstrable ability and performance at the interview stage?

I know of a few jobs that are more difficult like being a lawyer or an engineer where bits of paper smooth out the road to success, if you are measuring success by position and financial remuneration. I know a few jobs where maybe you cannot get there at all, research assistant in a biotech lab, or maybe like a heart surgeon, I don't know. But we are still talking about less than 1% of the aggregate job market there.

If you want to drum education education education into kids, fine, but there is already an entire generation ahead of them that have proven that model does not work in the modern world, and the move away from formal education to proven ability is accelerating. We are free to tell our kids what we want. We are free to make them feel as helpless as we want. We are free to tell them how hard their lives are going to be and how much they are going to suffer in the future if they don't get qualifications from our school of choice. But we are also free to empower them, educate them and equip them for the real world.

So if you know of jobs where you have to have formal highschool qualifications, or degrees that are barred to entry from children without highschool qualifications, do post them please.

Off the top of my head, medicine, dentistry, law, biomedical research, veterinary... I could go on but this is a bit silly (and incredibly obvious). There are lots of jobs that require you to have certain qualifications and all the life skills, positivity and self confidence in the world just won’t get you them.

As I’ve pointed out several times now, having qualifications will not guarantee you a job but for some jobs they are necessary. If someone has no interest in pursuing those careers then fair enough, but suggesting that qualifications are not necessary and you can pursue any career path you want without them is just not true.

And you do realise that you don’t have to pursue these qualifications through school don’t you? If school doesn’t suit some pupils (and this is the case for many children) then they can still study for and achieve these qualifications as private candidates. For certain jobs the qualifications are important - but it doesn’t matter if you get them through the standard school route or not.

@bumbleymummy

Off the top of my head, medicine, dentistry, law, biomedical research, veterinary... I could go on but this is a bit silly (and incredibly obvious). There are lots of jobs that require you to have certain qualifications and all the life skills, positivity and self confidence in the world just won’t get you them.

As I’ve pointed out several times now, having qualifications will not guarantee you a job but for some jobs they are necessary. If someone has no interest in pursuing those careers then fair enough, but suggesting that qualifications are not necessary and you can pursue any career path you want without them is just not true.

None of those require kids to have highschool qualifications. Some of those require you to have a degree (biomedical research at certain levels for example), but none of those degrees require you to have highschool qualifications to study them. Like I said, I do agree that qualifications for the children we are talking about do open doors, but they are not a necessity to getting jobs. Like you said, jobs do not make children successful, and we can equally both name jobs where all the qualifications in the world will not get you the job. You have to be able to do things.

And again, even if you do believe that the only way to be a lawyer, dentist doctor or vet for example is to get suitable highschool qualifications, we are still talking about less than 1% of jobs in the economy.

@bumbleymummy

And you do realise that you don’t have to pursue these qualifications through school don’t you? If school doesn’t suit some pupils (and this is the case for many children) then they can still study for and achieve these qualifications as private candidates. For certain jobs the qualifications are important - but it doesn’t matter if you get them through the standard school route or not.

That is my very point on a thread full of parents complaining that their kids education is being compromised by them not attending school.

I disagreed with your comment ‘qualifications don’t get you jobs’ . Qualifications, not high school diplomas.

You can’t do level 3/4/5 qualifications at college without level 2 qualifications.

You can’t do level 6/7 qualifications without level 2/3/4/5 qualifications.

There are many professional jobs that require a level 6/7 qualification : Teacher, doctor, lawyer, solicitor to name the obvious ones.

www.gov.uk/what-different-qualification-levels-mean/list-of-qualification-levels

None of those require kids to have highschool qualifications.

You really do need high school qualifications if you want to do a degree!

As an example, if you do not have a degree, or any highschool qualifications, you can become a solicitor. You may not become a lawyer without a law degree, provided you have a degree in something else, so you could get an OU degree in catering management and still become a lawyer with a years tutelage at a law firm. Of course getting a law form to take you on is becomes one of demonstrating intent, and aptitude, and a degree in law would have opened that door, but it is not something that is insurmountable, just something that is hard.

But if you had a passion for law and legal argument, there are many other positions within the practice that are equally well paid, equally challenging, and open to people with aptitude and no degrees. Arbitration for example.

@Goodbye2020Hello2021

None of those require kids to have highschool qualifications.

You really do need high school qualifications if you want to do a degree!

... or you need to convince a university that you are capable and will pass their course. You may need to study at a more prestigious university to do that, but the doors are always open for children without qualifications.

And of course there also a whole world full of universities to study at if you look beyond Oxford and Cambridge, and there are many who don't require qualifications. They only require ability and aptitude.

In anecdota..

The most successful friends I know didn't go to uni or have much formal education although both well educated...

Very talented though.. Successful in their fields, award winners... Great social life, etc etc etc....

I'm not sure they would have achieved..

[quote Goodbye2020Hello2021]You can’t do level 3/4/5 qualifications at college without level 2 qualifications.

You can’t do level 6/7 qualifications without level 2/3/4/5 qualifications.

There are many professional jobs that require a level 6/7 qualification : Teacher, doctor, lawyer, solicitor to name the obvious ones.

www.gov.uk/what-different-qualification-levels-mean/list-of-qualification-levels[/quote]
Ah. So by that metric universities who accept students without qualifications that are recognised in the UK, and universities who accept students without qualifications on the strength of an interview and an entrance exam are all breaking the law. How dare they. Lol.

or you need to convince a university that you are capable and will pass their course. You may need to study at a more prestigious university to do that, but the doors are always open for children without qualifications.

Yes. I know a few children that got onto the courses of their choice with no formal qualifications or fewer than the stated requirements due to them having been home educated or out of education for other reasons. I do feel that a fair amount of the fear and stress parents are experiencing is a result of the idea that there only one way to negotiate education. Allowances are regularly made for potential students who do not or can not fit into the route of GCSEs -> A Levels -> University.

Ah. So by that metric universities who accept students without qualifications that are recognised in the UK, and universities who accept students without qualifications on the strength of an interview and an entrance exam are all breaking the law. How dare they. Lol.

Seriously? They don’t accept ‘unrecognised qualifications’. They accept recognised, equivalent level qualifications from other countries. Not certificates downloaded/ bought off the internet. 🙄

or you need to convince a university that you are capable and will pass their course. You may need to study at a more prestigious university to do that, but the doors are always open for children without qualifications.

Ok..! Good luck to anyone applying to do a degree in medicine without so much as a GCSE/A level (or international equivalent) in science. 🤪

@Goodbye2020Hello2021

Ah. So by that metric universities who accept students without qualifications that are recognised in the UK, and universities who accept students without qualifications on the strength of an interview and an entrance exam are all breaking the law. How dare they. Lol.

Seriously? They don’t accept ‘unrecognised qualifications’. They accept recognised, equivalent level qualifications from other countries. Not certificates downloaded/ bought off the internet. 🙄

You can study in universities all over the world with NO qualifications. They may not be modern rebadged polytechnics,. You may have to restrict yourself to established centres of learning, but then given the choice between a polytechnic modern university and an established university, I'd take the one with the better academic record.

And yes, students from abroad get into university with qualifications that are not accepted by the UK government as being 'acceptable' all the time. They get in on merit, or because their fees are being paid. There is a big difference between the real world and the one the television would have us believe.

@Goodbye2020Hello2021

or you need to convince a university that you are capable and will pass their course. You may need to study at a more prestigious university to do that, but the doors are always open for children without qualifications.

Ok..! Good luck to anyone applying to do a degree in medicine without so much as a GCSE/A level (or international equivalent) in science. 🤪

There are universities that offer foundation courses for entry into medical degree to students with no formal highschool qualifications.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/387160/RR398A_-_Economic_Value_of_Key_Qualifications.pdf

Here is the government's assessment of the average lifetime value of key qualifications.

I don't have GCSE's, I did A levels at 30, & an HND at 50, no-one asked me about previous qualifications. If I did A third year I would be able achieve a Bachelor of Science degree.

I know lots o f people who have undertaken an OU degree and even a Masters. One went on to university to undertake a medical degree. No one mentions GCSE's!