The EARLIEST schools will open is 8th March!!!

[dingledongle]

I cannot believe this!

Stunned!

My kids have lost one year of school and are going to be paying for this for decades to come

Im sorry. Are you saying i dont try and educate my son at home?

Christ if you knew the reality!!!

Quite the bloody opposite actually.

I learnt phonics with him last year so i could teach him. I make damn sure he learns at home as much as at school. Always have.

But thats because i have the time to do so. In the UK both parents work much more often than many parts of the world. That makes a difference in terms of the role parents in education.

I also know that i have the ability to do this. Not all parents are educated enough to do this.

Believe me when I am saying some of the online learning is difficult and the kids aren't able to ask questions to the teacher about it whilst doing it then oak flaming academy isn't good enough. Its not a substitute for a teacher.

Im one of the most proactive parents on teaching their kids you will find. And i am very aware of that.

That is kind of my point.

Love the fact that you think a phone pinging umpteen times a day is social interaction

It is a social interaction. Of course, if you are a dinosaur and think being social can only be face to face, you clearly don’t understand how today’s children socialise.

Between her friend group of 11 years olds, they organised a zoom quiz on Sunday. No input from grown ups. They are socialising the same way adults are at the moment.

just isn't, running in the playground, playing football, plaiting each other's hair, having sleepovers, eating lunch together, going to the park etc etc is what I would call social interaction.

My daughter can’t do any of those things because of her disability. Now on top of every other way she is distinguished as different and missing out, you want to suggest she is damagingly socially isolated? Nice.

Sorry if you feel neglected. If it helps, I didn’t personally address anyone else’s situations either.

No, you just addressed the situation of the masses as if somehow we are all supposed to be so sad that little Jonny is missing out on school the same way that every other kid is, when we have been asking for exactly the same empathy and support for other kids who have missed out their entire school experience and get we get absolutely nothing.

Because apparently it only matters when non ASN kids are disadvantaged.

My point was, even if he was taught at school, there's chance he won't get it first time, so parents may need to help regardless of school is open or not. Nothing to do with you trying to educate your dc or not. Watching a video once and saying that he didn't get it sounds like you do believe if he was in school, taught by a teacher, he would get it first time, so disregarding the remote learning without trying.

Xero, I agree there is a strange passive culture here that we let other people take care of us.....

Rather than be aware of what's going on and stepping in for ourselves.
I hold my hands up, dd did some well at school with barely any input, dd2 took me by complete surprise. I was talking to a man of Indian heritage, himself a maths teacher and he said he found our culture strange and had I thought of a tutor, he said in his culture you would get them extra help.
At that time I remember saying... Well no... She's so young... It's the extra work isn't it... School say it will click soon...

Unfortunately it didn't and I realised, it was down to me to do something so I did and now I have had tutors and they have been absolutely amazing and supported dd moving forward. It's increased her self esteem, helped her to keep up, she feels connected to the work she does.
No end of benefits.. Now of course I realise that, no fault of teachers but amazingly, sen isn't taught in training.. Often SENCO are literally just Co ordinators and school surpress issues because they don't have funding to support.
I think there needs to be more transparency that school can only do so much and parents with most dc do need to support. Sorry rambling.. It's just struck me though that we are nannied in the UK

Infact a few weeks ago there was an interesting thread when a mum said her child wasn't getting stuff and other parents seemed very involved in their dc hw.
As a primary age child most posters and I said.. The skills needed to be learned are so vital to future learning, helping to imprint those skills really is key and must be supported.. Rather then worry about independent learning at that age.

when we have been asking for exactly the same empathy and support for other kids who have missed out their entire school experience and get we get absolutely nothing

From me, personally? Or from the world in general? I haven’t been nominated to speak on behalf of the world in general, so I’m not sure why you feel it reasonable to berate me for their general failures and treat empathy as something that can only be given to one group at a time. Or do you mean that I, personally, don’t care or have let you down when you asked for empathy and support?

“Well it’s totally fine that parents get accused of being whiners who hate their own children and don’t want to care for them, because other parents have been treated terribly in other ways, therefore I can sneer what I like about you and how dare you request any empathy for anybody in general ever you uncaring monster “ does not sound like the most compelling argument to me, but okay.

@RedToothBrush

Im sorry. Are you saying i dont try and educate my son at home?

Christ if you knew the reality!!!

Quite the bloody opposite actually.

I learnt phonics with him last year so i could teach him. I make damn sure he learns at home as much as at school. Always have.

But thats because i have the time to do so. In the UK both parents work much more often than many parts of the world. That makes a difference in terms of the role parents in education.

I also know that i have the ability to do this. Not all parents are educated enough to do this.

Believe me when I am saying some of the online learning is difficult and the kids aren't able to ask questions to the teacher about it whilst doing it then oak flaming academy isn't good enough. Its not a substitute for a teacher.

Im one of the most proactive parents on teaching their kids you will find. And i am very aware of that.

That is kind of my point.

I wasn’t making any assumptions about you personally. I was just saying that it’s easy to make excuses for not helping your child as that is definitely the easier option. There are lots of resources out there and ways to access them for everyone, no matter what your circumstances. Unfortunately some circumstances mean that more effort is involved. But if you want the best for your child you have to do it, no matter how hard it is.

And trust me, I have been there, with a child of 4 who couldn’t speak due to SEN. NHS speech therapy was useless. I was told she would always struggle at school. I could have accepted this. I didn’t. I basically taught myself to be a speech therapist from the internet despite having a full time job. By 6 she was in mainstream school and by 7 she was top of her class. She’s in Year 4 now and completing Year 6 work despite the lockdowns. It was a huge struggle. There were tears from both of us but was it worth it now? 100% yes.

no fault of teachers but amazingly, sen isn't taught in training.. Often SENCO are literally just Co ordinators and school surpress issues because they don't have funding to support.

This is something that just beggars belief and over the years I have told people when talking about my children's needs and they have simply not believed me. They find it incomprehensible that teachers do not routinely receive training in recognising SN/SEN in the children they are responsible for. I believe it is an optional module? Not sure on that. Ds was spotted because I knew something was going on and moved him to a primary which had a SALT unit attached - the only one in the borough - and so there were SLT therapists in situ and a specialist SENCO who spotted it almost immediately. Prior to that he'd been in two primaries where they brushed me off every time I mentioned possible autism and gazed at me uncomprehendingly when I suggested interventions that might help until we could get the assessment process started. I'll stop banging on now but this was a feature throughout his school time and then that of my next child - also autistic. They simply didn't have a clue and the worst thing is you expect them to, you think you are not alone and they'll help but they can't because they aren't trained and you end up telling them what to do!

Love the fact that you think a phone pinging umpteen times a day is social interaction. It just isn't, running in the playground, playing football, plaiting each other's hair, having sleepovers, eating lunch together, going to the park etc etc is what I would call social interaction.

You obviously don’t have teens...... my daughters entire social life is through her phone.....

We are in this same situation re SEN child who has been out of school for years with little to no support. It can be so frustrating hearing the government and the media going on and on about the damage being out of school is causing to children. No one ever gave a damn about my DD.

@lifeonhardmodept2 I'm sorry I missed this last night. I'm sorry you went/are going through it too

@Porcupineintherough

Some children will be irreparably damaged

Yep. The ones who've lost parents for sure.

There are many ways to cause damage to children. Are you so blinded that you think there is only one? This default response to anythjng anyone says these days is getting tedious and shows a distinct lack of insight.

Kids living in homes where they are regularly beaten, dont have enough food, arent supported in learning are just a few ways kids are suffering on a daily basis.
Child suicides are up, the number of children killed by close family members has risen during 2020.
eminent paediatricians have published warnings on the ruse of mental health issues soaring in young people and children primary school age.
Yet you feel smug enough to dismiss it in such an overused self satisfied Sound bite.

Kids living in homes where they are regularly beaten and dont get enough food will be damaged whether schools are open or not. And frankly I find the faux concern for these children pretty distasteful when put forward by posters whose main concern is clearly getting their own moppets back into school.

If you want to start a thread about how abused children can be protected why dont you do exactly that @Willow2017? The answer will need to be a bit fuller than "open schools now".

Excellent point, @Porcupineintherough. How have we got to the stage where, in one of the richest countries in the world (even if it doesn't feel that way at the moment), the only way people can come up with to protect vulnerable and protected children is to hope that schools can sort it out, on top of everything else they're expected to do?

There is no way schools will open on March 8th. But I can understand why some people need to be told these things. Its what any concerned Government should do in order to keep those who need it, placated and in their cognitive bubbles.

Sending kids into large groups to catch viruses and take them home to mummy and daddy seems to be pretty dumb. Arguing that you need to do that because one on one education from an intelligent adult at home does not compare to education with a single teacher in groups of 30 or 40 is plainly false.

And arguing about what happens with children who face neglect and abuse at home is tarring the whole of society with what you think is a remedy for a problem a few children face. You cannot use neglect and child abuse to justify returning to school.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Love the fact that you think a phone pinging umpteen times a day is social interaction. It just isn't, running in the playground, playing football, plaiting each other's hair, having sleepovers, eating lunch together, going to the park etc etc is what I would call social interaction.

You obviously don’t have teens...... my daughters entire social life is through her phone.....

If a child's entire social life is through their phone there is something wrong with their value systems and their understanding of the world around them.

@Justthebeerlighttoguide

Infact a few weeks ago there was an interesting thread when a mum said her child wasn't getting stuff and other parents seemed very involved in their dc hw. As a primary age child most posters and I said.. The skills needed to be learned are so vital to future learning, helping to imprint those skills really is key and must be supported.. Rather then worry about independent learning at that age.

... and there is absolutely nothing that a child cannot learn at home with one to one care from a loving parent. Nursery schools should absolutely stay closed.

HmmSureJan

I've only been fully in grasp of my DD sen for about a year and already I feel I have out run the experience and knowledge of all the teachers she has had since nursery!
I already feel I would be an assets to the school as some sort of consultant or TA !

It really needs to be absolutely embedded into the course to learn something about at least spotting sen and knowing what to do after that and at the VERY LEAST Senco -MUST have a minimum level in it - to actually help in the process of helping them access the curriculum! By Law every school should have a fully qual SENCO.

Its the blind leading the blind at the moment - and children are falling behind when often only small things need tweaking.

Arguing that you need to do that because one on one education from an intelligent adult at home does not compare to education with a single teacher in groups of 30 or 40 is plainly false.

Except many families aren’t able to give one to one education. Many are trying to work full time jobs while their children try to do as much as they can.

I also feel is this was transparent - that us parents knew that schools cannot actually spot SEN wouldnt we all be more proactive in helping ourselves!!

Its the lack of transparency that has got me - me believing that the teachers knew what to do!

“Say everyone is behind a full year- and never catches any of that up.
How does that actually, materially, impact their lives? What specific bits of knowledge or skills do students learn in Y11 that they need to learn in order to be successful or have a good life?”

Because it causes a collective social deficit in every aspect of capability, making the entirety of society poorer in every way.

Your point suggests that if everyone suffers the same deficit then we won’t notice because we are comparing amongst ourselves, but this misses the wider context.

@bumbleymummy

Arguing that you need to do that because one on one education from an intelligent adult at home does not compare to education with a single teacher in groups of 30 or 40 is plainly false.

Except many families aren’t able to give one to one education. Many are trying to work full time jobs while their children try to do as much as they can.

That's a lifestyle choice. Some people struggle through life with only one income and some children have never been on holiday because they can't afford it on one income. Some people live in rented accommodation and their children do not know what it is like to have a home that belongs to them. Some children flit between two homes because mummy and daddy couldn't make it work as a couple, and some some don't even get to see their fathers. These are all choices made by adults for children.

The point is, if you choose to priorities your standard of living over your child's education, that works great when society provides you with free education/child care. But it becomes very real that maybe priorities need to change, and maybe what was thought to be an entitlement can be gone in an instant.

Bottom line is, every child has a right to be educated, and every parent has a responsibility to educate their children. We do not get to abdicate our responsibilities by paying taxes, and we do not have a right to expect other people to do what we are not willing to do for ourselves.

We have a right to ask, or beg even, but teachers and Governments, and society as a whole has the absolute right to say, no.

@Justthebeerlighttoguide

I also feel is this was transparent - that us parents knew that schools cannot actually spot SEN wouldnt we all be more proactive in helping ourselves!!

Its the lack of transparency that has got me - me believing that the teachers knew what to do!

Surely that is just naïve.

Say everyone is behind a full year- and never catches any of that up.
How does that actually, materially, impact their lives? What specific bits of knowledge or skills do students learn in Y11 that they need to learn in order to be successful or have a good life?
It doesn't materially impact on their lives at all, unless something is lacking in their home lives. People succeed because of who they are and what they can do. Qualifications do not get you jobs. There is a whole generation of overly educated millennials living at home with their parents and struggling with the fact that education, education, education has been rammed down their throats their whole lives and they are discovering they have been lied to.

I realise for many they have to perpetuate the lie, because they were brought up that way, and if its good enough for them it's good enough for their kids. But hopefully the millennial generation will not be so dogmatic when it comes to what they tell their children, and what value systems they choose to impart.

@ElliFAntspoo so having a full time job to pay your bills is now a ‘lifestyle choice’?