Crying over school closures

[Fuckallofthis]

Firstly I don’t want an argument or masses of people piling in with ‘think of the teachers’ or their vulnerable people. I fully understand WHY schools can’t/won’t open, I’m just so so upset about it all.

The idea of continuing like this. Working, homeschooling a young child and having a toddler. It’s just impossible. I saw the news about the return being delayed and burst into tears, am currently in the bathroom trying to compose myself for my families sake.

I’m struggling so much, I’m just so tired. I’m failing at home school and had a call yesterday letting me know that I have to send his work back by the end of the day, my toddler is just left to be entertained by the TV and my own work is slacking.

I can’t escape the feeling that when this is over I’m going to be left unemployed, with a stunted toddler and a child very behind in his learning.

What do you prioritise, how can you decide which person/thing is most important? I never thought I’d choose work over children but how else will I pay the bills. This feels like it’s never going to end and I just can’t cope.

It’s just impossible. I can’t be furloughed, school and pre school won’t take the kids and DH is out all day. I feel like I’m drowning.

Oh dear 🤦

The guidance states that if a child is not engaging the teacher MUST communicate with home.

As OP has admitted she is struggling I am glad the teacher did their job and phoned home to check to make sure everything was ok. The phone calls are a welfare check more than anything else - well done to the teacher 👏

OP did not say the teacher was rude just that the work is compulsory this time - which is correct.
Everyone just loves to bash teachers so are acting like the teacher was in the wrong for phoning home but OP obviously needed this phone call regardless of whether it is protocol or not (it is).

Get over your pathetic issues that you have with your own childhood experiences of school and if you don’t like teachers following procedures then permanently homeschool - simple!

toocold, you're missing something here.

Yes its compulsory for the school to set it, yes, the have to call home to speak to a parent if the child isn't engaging.

it ISNT compulsory for a parent to make their child do the work and hand it in at some arbitrary set time if that isn't working for them as a family, if the OP can't do the work during school hours because she is working, then as long as she AND every other parent is getting their child to engage with the work out of hours/at the weekend and getting it handed in at some point, then that fills the parental obligation as per the law currently "Whatever way they can"

@toocold54 It is clear that you desperately believe and want to be right about the work being compulsory, but you are not. And you should probably exercise caution if you go around telling kids/parents of the kids you teach that it is. I don't suppose you do, you are probably lovely and empathetic and reasonable.

I don't bash teachers, I've made it clear in other posts that right now you have nothing but sympathy and respect from me. But there are some teachers and some schools who think they have authority that they simply don't have. One of which rang the OP.

OP can't do the work during school hours because she is working,

Where does it say she HAS to get it done during school hours?

The teacher said by the end of that day as she hadn’t been submitting the work - so she needed to submit something to show that some type of education has been taking place.

OP said herself she is going to ask about doing it on the weekends - so this wasn’t something that the teacher said on the phone couldn’t be done.
She also has a DP who could help during the evenings.

For the record I always set work for the same day because else it is too overwhelming for the child having 20 things to do rather than just a couple. But if they can’t do it at all then to message me and let me know. The teacher phoned the OP as the work wasn’t being submitted and OP hadn’t told them why so they need to check up on them.

No teacher is going to phone every parent after every piece of work that is missing - this would have been after lots/none of the work hadn’t been submitted.
If OP can only do 10mins of the work that day that’s fine but she still needs to submit it because it is the engagement that needs to be checked up on not the academic abilities of the pupil/parent.
And as she said if she is really struggling to do any during the week day then ask to do it on the weekend instead.

@Ihatemyseleffordoingthis

Ok so if school work isn’t compulsory then why do parents get fined for taking their children on holiday during term time?

@toocold54 because school attendance is compulsory unless you deregister and opt to Homeschool.

Thats a bit of a daft question really.

That currently doesn't apply as currently, that bit of legislation has been 'disapplied' during lockdown, along with the fines.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/950219/Education_Act_1996_-_school_attendance_offence_disapplication_notice_January_2021.pdf

and that makes attendance compulsory, not the actual work itself.

You can take a horse to water (or a child to school) but you can't make it drink (Force them to do the work)

and if you're asking questions like that, i'm honestly glad you're not my childs teacher, because it shows a clear lack of understanding on the law and how it applies to the students.

again, you seem to having a disconnect between the schools legal requirements/obligations, and the parents/students.

The school is required to set the work, and to provide evidence that the work is being done.

The parent is obliged to ensure their child gets an appropriate education.. IE either homeschool or send them to school.

The student is NOT legally obliged to DO the work... you cannot tell a child they're breaking the law if they dont do the work.

You can take a horse to water (or a child to school) but you can't make it drink (Force them to do the work)

So do you think there are classes full of children refusing to do work and the teacher not doing anything about it/getting the parents involved?

The parent is obliged to ensure their child gets an appropriate education.. IE either homeschool or send them to school.

Exactly!

@toocold54

You can take a horse to water (or a child to school) but you can't make it drink (Force them to do the work)

So do you think there are classes full of children refusing to do work and the teacher not doing anything about it/getting the parents involved?

not classes full, no... and no they're not doing nothing about it.

my 14yo has Autism and ADHD and is a notorious 'refuser' where his work is concerned, if its not interesting, or he doesn't see the point in it, or just doesn't feel like it, he won't do it.

His mainstream and i worked together to adjust the work to make it doable, but there is some that we just had to give up on because you can't FORCE a child to do their work... he's in specialist placement now and even the experts there can't make him do it all if he doesn't feel like it.

if THEY can't make him do it, with all their training and expertise in dealing with students with his disabilities, i'm not sure how the schools currently think parents who AREN'T teachers can either.

Sure we can engage, and tell the school we're trying our best, but at the end of the day, the parents/teachers can communicate til they're blue in the face, the student is still not LEGALLY obliged to DO the work and we can't force them.

"If OP can only do 10mins of the work that day that’s fine but she still needs to submit it because it is the engagement that needs to be checked up on not the academic abilities of the pupil/parent."

No, the engagement can be -" we are not following this work, we are reading the class book and talking about it and watching bitesize", or I am doing something else entirely instead. The engagement is the communication with the school. And no-one needs the school's "permission" to do so, or to submit work at weekends instead or anything.

And also everything @MrsHusky says

I'm sure you are not such a misinformed jobsworth in real life though I think it is odd that you have chosen to have such little understanding of the legal framework of your profession.

@Fuckallofthis

Your situation is completely shit. There's no getting around it. Children and young people are being completely shafted by school and university closures. Of course a toddler who's sitting in front of the TV all day is not going to develop socially and emotionally in the way they would if they were at home with a SAHP and no lockdown, or at nursery.

It makes me want to scream when I think of parents trying to WFH and look after - never mind supervise the education of - primary aged children. How could anyone, ever, have thought this was possible, never mind desirable? If any one person making the decisions had ever tried to do it, they would have found ways to keep schools open.

OP, I so want someone to hear you all of you who are doing this, and to act on it.

His mainstream and i worked together to adjust the work to make it doable, but there is some that we just had to give up on because you can't FORCE a child to do their work... he's in specialist placement now and even the experts there can't make him do it all if he doesn't feel like it.

I’ve said several times up thread that no child can be physically forced to do the work.

I am assuming that the school have contacted you regarding your child not working because that’s what they have to do - communicate with the parent. It’s the same if they are at home or in school it’s just protocol.

If they’re at home and the parent cannot get them to engage the teacher will ring them and the parent will explain and then that child becomes classed as vulnerable and gets a VKW in school.

We have some year 10s and 11s in simply because they’re not doing their work and the parents are struggling to get them to do anything. So they become classed as “vulnerable”.

No, the engagement can be -" we are not following this work, we are reading the class book and talking about it and watching bitesize", or I am doing something else entirely instead. The engagement is the communication with the school. And no-one needs the school's "permission" to do so, or to submit work at weekends instead or anything.

I’m not being rude but you have no idea what you’re talking about and keep making random things up and not making sense.

The work is set following the national curriculum.
Last lockdown it was ok to say we are not doing this work we are doing something different instead. This time it is different.

I have many students who can’t do exactly what is set and watch videos about it instead but that is decided on an individual basis and after communication with the parent about the best way for them to learn.

How do you think 30+ children all doing completely different things is going to help with their education?

it ISNT compulsory for a parent to make their child do the work and hand it in at some arbitrary set time if that isn't working for them as a family, if the OP can't do the work during school hours because she is working, then as long as she AND every other parent is getting their child to engage with the work out of hours/at the weekend and getting it handed in at some point, then that fills the parental obligation as per the law currently "Whatever way they can"

^ This and most schools are human and normal and get this - the teacher may not realise the back systems in play but most people would be totally flexible.

We do what we can - when we can and up load it when we can. The school can see dd is engaged and moving forward and submitting some work - its probably not of the standard of the other dc at all, or the level! BUt she is working. Thats all that is required .

@toocold54 - You still want so desperately want to be right.

"How do you think 30+ children all doing completely different things is going to help with their education?"

Probably brilliantly. It would likely be bespoke to their own needs and circumstances, abilities and aptitudes.

We do what we can - when we can and up load it when we can. The school can see dd is engaged and moving forward and submitting some work - its probably not of the standard of the other dc at all, or the level! BUt she is working. Thats all that is required

Absolutely!

All children work at different paces in school so that will no different out of school either.
It is just making sure your DC isn’t missing out on ALL of their education but of course it will never be the same level as in school.

Probably brilliantly. It would likely be bespoke to their own needs and circumstances, abilities and aptitudes.

@Ihatemyseleffordoingthis

Now you’re just being silly.
All the work will be differentiated but not following the NC will mean the children will not understand what the rest of the class are doing nor get the grades they are capable of.

@toocold54

Schools are unreasonable to give parents deadlines on homeschooling. It's that simple. You don't get to imply it's compulsory or else .... Consequences. hmm

@gamerchick

Unfortunately it’s not up to schools it’s the government so if you have an issue you need to take it up with them. The work is compulsory end of.

If you don’t like it perhaps remove your children from school and permanently home school?

The teacher did exactly what they were meant to. You cannot argue when someone is following the correct procedures. It’s actually really embarrassing reading people trying to imply the teacher was somehow in the wrong!

But I’m sure if the teacher hadn’t phoned there would be a thread moaning about that, as apparently teachers can’t do anything right at the moment 😂

My kids AT school. I'm not homeschooling nobody.

You really are missing the point aren't you? Schools aren't police, they don't get to demand fuck all.... 'end of'.

People can only do their best and if that means keeping a roof over their kids head and food in their stomach then that's good enough for the minute.

I'll tell you what though toocold considering you're flat out being a teacher and whatnot, you're certainly finding the time to constantly post on this thread as well on a school day.

That's impressive.

You really are missing the point aren't you? Schools aren't police, they don't get to demand fuck all.... 'end of'.

Lol your attitude speaks louder than anything you can possibly say.
It’s funny how you’ve got such issues/intimidated by schools yet you’re happy to send your kids there - does that mean you’re a hypocrite or not a good parent?

I'll tell you what though toocold considering you're flat out being a teacher and whatnot, you're certainly finding the time to constantly post on this thread as well on a school day.

You say your a Key worker yet you still find time to post?
I guess it’s different rules for me though isn’t it?

And it was actually our year 7 trip this week so I don’t have any classes to teach although I am catching up on marking and feedback whilst homeschooling my DC as a single parent.
It’s amazing how I can go on my phone too isn’t it, or maybe I’m just better at multi-tasking than you are.

@toocold54

Probably brilliantly. It would likely be bespoke to their own needs and circumstances, abilities and aptitudes.

@Ihatemyseleffordoingthis

Now you’re just being silly.
All the work will be differentiated but not following the NC will mean the children will not understand what the rest of the class are doing nor get the grades they are capable of.

Maybe in the secondary school world it is differentiated, not here, the work is set, same work for two year groups, if your child is already ahead of the curriculum there is no differentiation at all. Fortunately the school is happy for him to mainly go his own way. They know that he is substantially ahead and it is not possible to adequately differentiate his work for him. He is making substantial inroads into the secondary curriculum now, we are fulfilling our duty to ensure that he is gaining an education, we tell the school what he has done but very little of it is their 'compulsory' work. He mainly is in school for the benefits of peer interaction which obviously isn't possible right now. When school goes back he will be back in there mixing with friends. He will go to a highly academic secondary so hopefully work will be differentiated and stretching.

It is great that you can differentiate online work and spend so long on mumsnet, but obviously not all teachers can and if OP's teacher is unable to provide work which is sufficiently differentiated to be completed independently (which is challenging at that age) then they will have to accept that it will be returned when an adult is available to help.

It is great that you can differentiate online work and spend so long on mumsnet, but obviously not all teachers can and if OP's teacher is unable to provide work which is sufficiently differentiated to be completed independently (which is challenging at that age) then they will have to accept that it will be returned when an adult is available to help.

The issue I have with some posters on this thread is that the school hasn’t suggested anything otherwise or OP has not said they have. But people are making the teacher out to be the devil when all they did was phone up which is what they have to do.

They have said she needs to get work in by the end of that day because she hadn’t been doing so. She didn’t say anything about having to do this every day.
And as she is going to ask the teacher to do the work on the weekends instead it sounds like the teacher didn’t say the work had to be submitted everyday - people are just jumping on this thread teacher bashing with no actual evidence that the teacher did anything like what they are suggesting!

I’m not sure if I missed what age your child is but if they are not in year 6 yet then I’d seriously consider moving them to a different primary school if they are that high ability.

Like all schools there are definitely primaries that have the teachers/resources that cater to higher ability students more than others.