Why should the UK vaccine supply be diverted to Europe?

[lovelemoncurd]

They ordered 3 months later than the UK. They have themselves less time to sort glitches. They have been slow to the table and now they wish to punish to UK for being efficient.

I was a remain voter. I'm starting to change my mind!

[quote FitzsimmonsMarvel]@IcedPurple the U.K. did not ‘pay for the vaccines’ - what utter nonsense. It was developed and paid for by multiple countries including the EU! The US alone gave them 1 billion in funding back in May 2020.

Honestly so much nonsense on this thread from posters who seem to think it was only British money, British workers and British ideas that made the vaccine.[/quote]
Also, the idea that the EU putting money into vaccine research should give them some kind of priority during a pandemic is obscene and immoral.

@TooMuchYarn the uk are further ahead as they ordered earlier and approved earlier , its not even been approved in the eu yet .
This is the eu mess up they should just own it

[quote FitzsimmonsMarvel]@IcedPurple the U.K. did not ‘pay for the vaccines’ - what utter nonsense. It was developed and paid for by multiple countries including the EU! The US alone gave them 1 billion in funding back in May 2020.

Honestly so much nonsense on this thread from posters who seem to think it was only British money, British workers and British ideas that made the vaccine.[/quote]
You should read my post again before jumping to (false) conclusions.

I said that Britain paid for the vaccines it ordered, not for every vaccine that AZ ever produced. Which is correct.

The UK was just quicker on the uptake, took a leap of faith early - one of the few decisions this Govt. has called correctly.

I voted remain. Sod off, EU.

If this ends up in the courts, hopefully it will take months to reach judgement, by which time the UK will have received its full allocation.

[quote MessAllOver]@IcedPurple. But there is really no need to 'take care' of most healthy young people by vaccinating them. The risk is minute.

It's a bit like insisting your mid-20s brother, who is a strong swimmer, gets a place in the lifeboat when the ferry sinks 100 metres from shore because there's a miniscule chance he might get eaten by a shark while swimming to shore. Meanwhile, you leave the frail pensioner, who can't swim, on a sinking boat to drown just because he isn't related to you.[/quote]
Well no. Britain is going to vaccinate its adult population so as to achieve herd immunity and ensure that hospitals are not overwhelmed. Other wealthy nations are going to do the same. It's not just about risk to each person, but to society as a whole.

[quote MessAllOver]@IcedPurple. But there is really no need to 'take care' of most healthy young people by vaccinating them. The risk is minute.

It's a bit like insisting your mid-20s brother, who is a strong swimmer, gets a place in the lifeboat when the ferry sinks 100 metres from shore because there's a miniscule chance he might get eaten by a shark while swimming to shore. Meanwhile, you leave the frail pensioner, who can't swim, on a sinking boat to drown just because he isn't related to you.[/quote]
Mess you can forgo it as your right.

But not say no for me, and others, as I’d like it

@LangClegsInSpace I don’t disagree, there is clearly not an ideal situation when need massively outstrips demand. But there will be absolutely no way any politician could ever sell this to the British public. Our death rate is very high, the current mutation is raging in certain areas. Arguably, it’s “us” that need controlling (having the mutation which may be more transmissible etc) It therefore just won’t be shipped out to other countries until every adult has received an invite to be vaccinated. No politician had the balls

[quote Crazycatlady83]@LangClegsInSpace I don’t disagree, there is clearly not an ideal situation when need massively outstrips demand. But there will be absolutely no way any politician could ever sell this to the British public. Our death rate is very high, the current mutation is raging in certain areas. Arguably, it’s “us” that need controlling (having the mutation which may be more transmissible etc) It therefore just won’t be shipped out to other countries until every adult has received an invite to be vaccinated. No politician had the balls[/quote]
Nor should it

@Bluethrough

Depends on the contracts signed? its not "our" vaccine, we have ordered 100m doses, the EU 400m.

AZ have to honour both agreements, supply issues aren't the UK's or the EU's problem, they are AZ's.

I think, given the shortages, AZ has to supply enough for everyone to vaccinate their most at risk groups first.

I just hope we never have to rely on anything from the EU, many posters would rather start a war with europe than help them.

I agree with this.

I'm worried about the eu/Britain relationship and the rhetoric como my about. All said and done we need a good relationship with our closest neighbours.

[quote ScribblingPixie]@FitzsimmonsMarvel, you think the EU wanted Astrazeneca to stockpile the vaccine for them all through December and January when they hadn't approved the vaccine and it could be used to save lives elsewhere? Surely not. That would be immoral during a pandemic.[/quote]
There is no way that AZ would allow delivery and stockpiling of a vaccine before it had even been approved. As PP said, completely immoral in a pandemic. If that’s what the EU thought was an acceptable plan then I think that says a lot.

I'm worried about the eu/Britain relationship and the rhetoric como my about. All said and done we need a good relationship with our closest neighbours.

The rhetoric is only coming from one side though.

And it's not Britain.

@HeyHeyImABeLeaver

@myheartisneverontime they were never eu stock they were az stock
If india had ordered them they go there, what of the eu never approved the jab ,its been made you get it shipped out not sat around.
This is the eu's own fault and they still haven't even approved the jab.
Numerous people have explained and you still don't get it
Pfizer is made in belgium but its not belgiums stock

@IcedPurple

I'm worried about the eu/Britain relationship and the rhetoric como my about. All said and done we need a good relationship with our closest neighbours.

The rhetoric is only coming from one side though.

And it's not Britain.

Exactly

We have been very calm

I reckon it’s because the contracts are sound

And even then it’s up to lawyers to resolve it not politicians

@QuentinInQuarantino maybe you need to read the contracts and az is sticking to those contracts , the eu still haven't approved it yet.
We are also not the only using the az and who have approved it.

Yeah even Boris is being careful when pestered about it by journalists. The UK is being calm (and a little smug) but still calm

The EU is shooting itself

@FitzsimmonsMarvel they are giving them to the eu just not as quick as the eu would like as same as when we first got some , production issues and the eu still haven't approved it
The ceo a european explained it all in great detail

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@QuentinInQuarantino maybe you need to read the contracts and az is sticking to those contracts , the eu still haven't approved it yet.
We are also not the only using the az and who have approved it.[/quote]
Thankfully I still have enough of a life to not resort to reading contracts BUT don't the EU have a contract too? Which AZ presumably have not been able to fulfil. Not the uks fault at all but I think the eu have a right to be annoyed with az if they signed and paid and didn't get the goods. It's not really on to demand someone else's goods but as a pp said it's for the lawyers and not the politicians anyway.

It’s nothing to do with approval. The EU purchased 400 million doses in advance. The first batch of 100 million was to be delivered to EU for March. They are now saying they aren’t going to deliver them- not because they don’t have it but because they are going to continue giving the bulk of vaccinations they have to the U.K. until they fulfil the U.K. entire order while not even fulfilling the first tranche of vaccines the EU paid for.

@donewithitalltodayandxmas makes sense then for the EU factories who are producing Pfizer to keep all those doses in the EU and tell the U.K. ‘they are giving them to the U.K. just not as quick as the UK would like’ if prior purchase and delivery dates committed to no longer matter....

It's not 'our' vaccine but the U.K. government did dip its hands in its pockets to help fund the development of the vaccine. Regardless, the Oxford vaccine team were very keen that this vaccine would be distributed around the world and picked A/Z because they supported this goal. What a shame it's all come to this. The CEO of A/Z even pointed out that as a European, it's not in his interest to stop the vaccine being distributed in Europe. This has shown a very ugly face of the E.U. Firstly in its slow response to ordering vaccines and then in these bullying threats. I voted remain but I'm grateful we had Brexit now.

@Bluethrough the ceo has explained contracts and issues and the eu still haven't even approved it yet, we had supply issues at beginning as well and we haven't got all pfizer we ordered yet , we get through what we get.
Hopefully others maybe approved as time goes on and we have more options going forward , but the eu don't look good coming out if this and threats are not nice , even some the eu press has criticised apparently .

@cyclingmad

Succinct summary of why the EU fucked up basically:

Over the summer, under Mrs von der Leyen and the Commission’s health chief, the Cypriot Stella Kyriakides, the EU made a series of devastating strategic errors. It ordered 300 million doses of a vaccine manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline-Sanofi, a drug that then stumbled in trials.

It spent the summer haggling over the price for the Pfizer/BioNTech jab, ordering sizeable shipments only in November.

Britain, meanwhile, ordered 40 million doses of the same vaccine in July; America put in for 600 million.

Disgracefully, the EU has still not approved the ‘game-changing’ Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine — which is both cheap and can be stored in a standard refrigerator.

They took too long approving the Astrazenca vaccine, instead putting all their eggs in two baskets and Macron was heavily pushing for the French vaccine which won't be ready until end of this year!

Pfizer having to upgrade their production facilities in Belgium aswell.

Meanwhile we are cracking on and Bojo is already starting discussions with Johnson and Johnson on the one jab vaccine ..again getting in their first. Bet you mt house the EU will be yet again months behind.

Because of all the EU issues, countries like Germany basically splinting off and buying vaccines anyway, making a mockery of the whole point of being an EU member.

So there you have it, had we still been in the EU we would be so much worse off right now, be so far behind in getting out of this quickly. Meanwhile we're cracking on and there you can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel.

This is a great example that leave voters can now point oo as to why many of them wanted to leave!!

We have taken back control, we determine our fate and thank god Bojo is doing the right thing in getting orders in for mutilated of vaccines, the funding and now already looking to add another vaccine to the list.

Covid is destroying our economy more than Brexit

Totally all of this. One more point Europhiles love to miss. Although member states were technically able to order their own vaccines, political pressure was applied to manage it centrally (after the PPE fiasco which was received very badly in Italy). There is a large difference in the EU between being politically able to do something and legally able to do it. That is also the kind of nonsense we are all well rid of.

@FitzsimmonsMarvel have you read the contracts and what ceo says as its quite different to what you are saying

Yep it's about the contracts.

AZ agreed to supply X amount by Y date.
Now they say it's not going to happen because of problems at Z production plant.

So naturally the EU asks why AZ can't deliver as they have other production plants (in the UK) and are able to fulfil most of the order.

My gess is AZ has a "better offer " from somewhere else. And feel they don't have to honour the contract with the EU...

How things are reported in the media is a different issue. Great for a Brexit boost, after to wake up call things like import / export charges. And judging by this thread it's working!

@Fitzsimmonsmarvel no it doesn't make sense for eu to hold pfizer if its what is ordered and as per contract and not actually totally up to the eu its up to pfizer to sort its contracts