Why should the UK vaccine supply be diverted to Europe?

[lovelemoncurd]

They ordered 3 months later than the UK. They have themselves less time to sort glitches. They have been slow to the table and now they wish to punish to UK for being efficient.

I was a remain voter. I'm starting to change my mind!

@Crazycatlady83. A major aim of the government's propaganda campaign about Covid has been to scare us into compliance with the lockdown measures necessary to protect the elderly and clinically vulnerable. I agree with this strategy because those groups needed to be protected. The risk of dying of Covid for most people outside those groups is very small indeed.

There will have to be a compromise. The EU might not approve the vaccine yet, nothing would surprise me, let’s see what happens Friday.

@Rosehip10. As has been said on here many times in response to criticisms of lockdown measures, lives are more important than money.

@MessAllOver I agree completely. I just think you would have a very very tough time convincing millions of people they were safe to continue their lives without the vaccine. It would be political suicide

The ‘Pfizer’ vaccine was developed by the German firm BioNTech. Pfizer ran the trials and did logistics, but the technology and science is entirely German. In the same way as Oxford developed the vaccine, but AZ help in getting it to market. Though the role BioNTech play is greater - the Belgian plant is a BioNTech plant, not a Pfizer one.

Germany is quite rightly livid. Their scientists developed the first vaccine, they started negotiations early but it was taken over by the Commission who messed up - taking too long and not having tight enough contracts.

It is a mess, and all turns on what the AZ contracts say.

Isn’t our contribution to ROW vaccine through Covax etc?

We won’t hand over our supply before going through our own programme

But that won't happen, the rich countries will vaccinate all they can regardless of what happens in other countries. The UK wanting to do this is just the start.

Pretty sure the UK isn't richer than the entire EU.

@IrmaFayLear

You can bet your bottom dollar that if it had been the UK who was late to the party and had no vaccines then people (and particularly the BBC) would have said it served us right for Brexit and how wonderful Europe is.

Now it’s the other way round they’re floundering around and offering silly moral arguments like we should forego our vaccines and share nicely with Europe. As if they’d have slung a few vaccines our way if we had cocked up...

Too right

We all know how the Guardian, BBC, Independent, FT etc would be reporting this is it was the other way round. It would all be about how rubbish Britain is, how Brexit is a disaster, and how wonderful the EU is.

As it is, this doesn't fit the narrative, so it will be interesting to see how it's spun.

Depends on the contracts signed? its not "our" vaccine, we have ordered 100m doses, the EU 400m.

AZ have to honour both agreements, supply issues aren't the UK's or the EU's problem, they are AZ's.

I think, given the shortages, AZ has to supply enough for everyone to vaccinate their most at risk groups first.

I just hope we never have to rely on anything from the EU, many posters would rather start a war with europe than help them.

**It is a mess, and all turns on what the AZ contracts say

I wonder if AZ can essentially “give away” the capacity for manufacturing the vaccine in the UK though? It’s all well and good saying the UK factories are in the pot for their delivery quotes and it’s not “first come first serve”. But you can’t give away something that you have already contractually given away surely? (the UK contract states the vaccine made in the UK is for the UK)

I personally am not particularly bothered about receiving the vaccine (mid-30s, slightly overweight, no other clinical vulnerabilities). I do want my older (and in the case of DF, clinically vulnerable) parents to receive it. Once they receive it, I will be happy to resume normal life within sensible limits).

I would feel guilty receiving the vaccine before an 80 year old, wherever in the world they are located.

Mess I’d prefer we stuck to vaccine programme and contributed funds etc through programmes.

I’d like to get vaccine (at 47)

@Dutchesss
I'm on the fence, but agree with the below;
I don't think it's right that the UK - or any other country - should be allowed to vaccinate more than than their highest priority groups.
Approx 30% of the population of the EU/EEA and the UK is either over 60 years old or has one of the underlying conditions associated with COVID-19 risk.
No country should be vaccinating more than that until ALL the highest risk group people have been vaccinated in all countries.
But that won't happen, the rich countries will vaccinate all they can regardless of what happens in other countries. The UK wanting to do this is just the start.

The WHO has also noted that if vaccines are not distributed evenly then there will be more virus mutations.

1. The UK has a very high number of cases and deaths, why are countries without cases and deaths more in need of the vaccine than us?
2. Population size; we are tiny, ~50m adults is a drop in the ocean compared with the need to vaccinate 6bn, it would be pretty words that won't make a tangible difference when no other country will do the same.
3. How will the UK contribute to Covax to pay for these vaccines, and manufacture them, when we can't open our economy and risk factories closing due to outbreaks?
4. UK taxpayers paid for the vaccine research and for the vaccine, do you think they wouldn't riot if it gets shipped overseas for years while everyone stays in lockdown here?
5. Other countries can't vaccinate quickly it seems, and some have unwilling populations, but we can. Should we wait years for every slow country before we allow people on their 50s in the UK to get a vaccine?
6. Variants can and will happen anywhere with viruses. Right now case levels are very high in the UK, if this is the main risk then the UK is the first country that should be vaccinated.
7. It's pretty words just to sound noble, with no real intent and you won't turn down the vaccine for yourself to patiently wait in lockdown on your own will you? Merkel has said the same. Now let's look at Germany's behaviour in minimal covax investment, buying extra vaccine above EU supply and threatening to withhold legally purchased Pfizer vaccine. How ugly.

I could go on, if that isn't enough for you?

Depends on the contracts signed?

Well yes, it depends what the contracts say. If reports are to be believed, AZ aren't actually breaching the one with the EU.

Let’s see what comes out of the meeting

I’ve got my European friends already telling me how this is all bojos fault and brexit. They’ll never recognise the eu does something wrong ...

@MRex
Exactly this! Well put!

Lots of people would like to get the vaccine. The question is whether a young person in the UK should be vaccinated before an elderly or vulnerable person elsewhere.

I’ve got my European friends already telling me how this is all bojos fault and brexit. They’ll never recognise the eu does something wrong ...

Yeah not really sure how a crap EU contract is boris' fault!

@Backbee - Bojo has done so much wrong in this pandemic, it’s like a automatic reflect to blame him now whenever something goes wrong!

Now let's look at Germany's behaviour in minimal covax investment, buying extra vaccine above EU supply and threatening to withhold legally purchased Pfizer vaccine. How ugly.

Plus German politicians appear to have planted fake news about the Astrazeneca vaccine in German newspapers in order to, what, discredit it? Pressurise the company into doing the EU's bidding. It's been a real eye opener.

This is ridiculous.

Threatening to block the Pfizer supply because they think they are not getting the OAZ is very much like me demanding a refund from Ocado because Waitrose misplaced my cucumbers.

@ScribblingPixie - there is a chance those guys were just your common or garden idiots, there seem to be a fair few of those floating about this week.

@lovelemoncurd the EU paid €336 million to the company for vaccines during production and development of the vaccine. They were told that X amount would be produced by EU factories and given to the EU and the remainder by factories in U.K. They were told that vaccines produced in U.K. would first go to U.K. as they signed their contract earlier than EU. But what’s actually happened is they had production delays in U.K. and just gave the U.K. the doses from the EU factory where they had stipulated they would be producing for the EU which was how they planned to meet the initial quota of doses they had said they would provide to the EU on a ‘best efforts’ basis.

Personally if I had said I want 200 cupcakes for a company even on X date and they firm said they would give them to me on a ‘best effort’ basis I would not accept ‘well we gave them to another customer as your order was ready and the other customers wasn’t’ as a reason for not fulfilled the order promised to me.

[quote WinterdiscontentGlorioussummer]@IcedPurple Apparently eu paid Astra to produce the vaccines during the development and trials in order for them to be ready when approval happened. If the quote is true, Astra is suspected of having sold those vaccines paid by the EU to someone else (sold them twice so to speak).

I'm not knowledgeable about this but please don't make it a vaccine war.
[/quote]
The UK also paid AZ to produce vaccines, but that was three months before the EU did. The UK then approved the vaccine back in December, at which point AZ shipped does to the UK. At the time (and at the time of writing) the EU had not approved the Oxford vaccine. Were AZ expected to ignore a contract they had signed, and refuse to deliver those doses, and instead leave them gathering dust?

Also, I haven't seen it mentioned, but as the UK has plants manufacturing this vaccine, even if the EU were able to block it's export it wouldn't have a huge effect on us. The people who would be affected are those in developing countries who are relying on this one because they can't afford to buy the more expensive Pfizer and Moderna ones.

German politicians appear to have planted fake news about the Astrazeneca vaccine in German newspapers in order to, what, discredit it?

It's strange how things turn out isn't it? Someone suggested exactly that when the "8% efficacy" came out - and was roundly slated for it

That the EU bureaucracy would louse up was only to be expected, so perhaps the Germans should be taking it up with them?

In the meantime, though, I can't quite see how the UK could "give some of our vaccines to others" whether it's the right thing to do or not. Having blathered on about transmission doubts and insisted that the vaccinated must still follow guidelines until far more are done, I'd have thought that would be political suicide