Why should the UK vaccine supply be diverted to Europe?

[lovelemoncurd]

They ordered 3 months later than the UK. They have themselves less time to sort glitches. They have been slow to the table and now they wish to punish to UK for being efficient.

I was a remain voter. I'm starting to change my mind!

The Belgian Health Minister said that the raid was carried out on behalf of the commission. It was aimed at proving whether or not AstraZeneca’s explanation for the failure in supply was genuine.

This is shocking.

I am reading this that the eu really don't trust or believe AZ, what do they think they have more than they are letting on?

[quote MRex]@RedToothBrush - India is lined up to produce effectively much of the AZ Covax supply, because geographically they are the manufacturer for cold chain supply for all SE Asia and Africa. They knew very well that regardless of approvals elsewhere, they had a market in Covax.[/quote]
I think it comes back to the point that AZ could not set up the EU supply chain until the EU put in the orders. The EU cant rely on a none member who made their own arrangements and supply chain to bridge that gap ultimately.

They shouldn’t - and threatening to withhold the Pfizer vaccine if they don’t get what they want is disgraceful.

@backbe what do you mean thats a big reach?

@Justthebeerlighttoguide

As ever with the EU , you are only as strong as your weakest caravan. As they are all one land mass and have open borders it makes sense to try and move as one. However - how altruistic will the Germans feel now their cases have spiraled out of control and they could have had vaccs sooner but Merkel said no?

How will some Germans feel when a relative passes away who would have been eligible because Merkel wants the Ex Eastern Bloc countries to all be in line too but they are breaking off and getting stuff from Russia to sort their citizens out?

Its going to cause a massive fault line, I am sure we will either see the end of the EU or the almost disintegration of Nations within it.

Covid is a greater threat to the EU than Brexit ever was.

@RedToothBrush you make a lot of sense and explain it well
Guess we will have to wait to see what has been found after this raid?
Hopefully all is above board and i know we didn't get the amounts expected in the first few weeks either

@Dongdingdong

The Belgian Health Minister said that the raid was carried out on behalf of the commission. It was aimed at proving whether or not AstraZeneca’s explanation for the failure in supply was genuine.

This is shocking.

Why?

I thought the one thing we should have all learnt by now, whether we live in the UK or not, is that in the current circumstances is that a few individuals/companies cannot be trusted to deliver 100% on promises so an element of checking might be a good thing...

As long as the investigation/no notice inspection didn't disrupt production I don't consider it shocking at all...

@marbellamarc

Why haven't other countries broken away as Germany have?

money?

The AZ vaccine is cost price, if I was another country I would buy a supply and ask the EU for a reduction in EU budget contribution to cover the cost because they haven't delivered on what they promised.

If you pay a deposit and half the order turns up you expect a refund and then you go elsewhere. In the same way the EU will seek legal/financial recompense for undelivered/delayed order from AZ if this proves to be the case.

It's been said for a while that the uk leaving would concerntrate the power of the eu commission as the largest voice which stood up to it trying to centralise things had left. It was thought that would further the ambitions of the EU towards greater integration and singular policy. Its kind of backfiring and not really panning out the way it was thought it would but its due to the same force.

I really do think the UK probably would have objected to a singular vaccine purchasing programme and certainly would have through a hissy fit at slow vaccine approval and would have acted unilaterally. Simply because of how far up shit creek we were in December and how other countries were starting their programmes. The idea that the UK eould have sat on its hands whilst the US abd Israel were cracking on, i find hard to believe.

It is possible to act unilaterally on this within the EU. Hungary and Germany are illustrating this in different ways.

I can find no argument to support the idea that the UK would have stuck by EU strategic planning on this. Indeed its harder to think of reasons why an always slightly belligerent uk wouldnt have broken away. Its not exactly as if we haven't had a track record of being a thorn in the EU's ambition on centralisation.

The telegraph piece is behind a paywall (the poster may have been able to get 2 free items a month or suchlike) so I can't tell if 'raid' is accurate or if it's inflammatory media-speak for pretty standard procedures such as 'customer audit'.

Surely you can't just choose to raid a laboratory because you're pissed off? They must have had a warrant, and surely no warrant without evidence of need??

I think its completely shocking/illegal if not!

Az blocked for over 65s in Germany.

@Bubbletube

They shouldn’t - and threatening to withhold the Pfizer vaccine if they don’t get what they want is disgraceful.

They would have problems with trying that.

This from months ago:

Croda is to play a vital role in the production of Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccine.

The East Yorkshire headquartered specialty chemical company has entered into an agreement with the US giant to supply a new ingredient that carries the active element into the body.

It will be produced at sites in the UK and US.

is that in the current circumstances is that a few individuals/companies cannot be trusted to deliver 100% on promises so an element of checking might be a good thing...

What you’re describing sounds like a police state - I wasn’t aware that the EU was one of those.

Legally are they even allowed to just show up and raid a business premises?

So what are these 'altruistic' young folks going to do? Tell the nurse they don't want their vaccine, but ask them to pop it in an envelope for them so they can send it off to Malawi?

Nah - far easier to virtue signal from behind a keyboard, knowing that they'll get their vaccine just the same and no-one will ever know

The bottom line is that, politically, governments have to look after their own first, and much of europe was foolish enough to entrust arrangements to the EU. Predictably they've loused it up, and with vaccine approval and "It's happening!!!" headlines looming, they're terrified of a mass outcry if their incompetence is revealed and yet more start to wonder if the EU's such a good thing after all

So in the classic politician's gambit, they seek to blame someone else

Coronavirus: EU and AstraZeneca seek to resolve vaccine supply crisis www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55836463

Report from one hour ago.

@PutYourBackIntoit

Surely you can't just choose to raid a laboratory because you're pissed off? They must have had a warrant, and surely no warrant without evidence of need??

I think its completely shocking/illegal if not!

Its disturbing for sure and may backfire How can Az negotiate in good faith and work together with eu on increasing supply as quickly as possible. You can just magic up vaccine at speed there are teething problems. It took uk factories months to iron out teething problems. Where does it end can eu seize vaccines if within Europe.

By March April won't both UK and Europe be taking delivery of their moderna orders.
Think UK was quite late on moderna and ordered 7million doses.
Theres significant difference on cost between moderna/ phizer and az.

@PutYourBackIntoit

Surely you can't just choose to raid a laboratory because you're pissed off? They must have had a warrant, and surely no warrant without evidence of need??

I think its completely shocking/illegal if not!

Which is why I'm guessing it wasn't actually a 'raid'.

The raid sounds like something a totalitarian, dictatorial communist ruler will do. How can they expect other companies to trust any future agreement will be conducted in good faith?

If tesco claimed that they cant deliver my online shopping on time, I for sure will not raid their store to check their stocks and accounts?

As ever with the EU , you are only as strong as your weakest caravan. As they are all one land mass and have open borders it makes sense to try and move as one. However - how altruistic will the Germans feel now their cases have spiraled out of control and they could have had vaccs sooner but Merkel said no?
Justthebeerlighttoguide I hear what you say, but don't you think the boot is on the other foot? The germans have bought extra supplies, the Commission has turned a blind eye, and now they lecture other countries about solidarity. I think there will be a degree of resentment from them. Especially when, like Spain, they start running out of vaccines.

Legally are they even allowed to just show up and raid a business premises?

Does it not occasionally happen in the UK..Serious Fraud Office etc??

I've certainly experienced a "no notice inspection" by the UK authorities in my place of work.

(haten to add that yes, IMHO the EU has stuffed this up)

@IrmaFayLear

Ha ha. I’d bet a Lottery jackpot win that not one single European would be nobly passing on having the vaccine because there might be a needier person in Pontefract.

It’s not often you see Ponte name checked!

And most people think it’s in Wales

@redtoothbrush if that is true then they don't need the az yet and can divert to other eu countries if they approve it as we are still only vaccinating out vulnerable and people forget we are only getting through people we are as we are gambling with the time between doses, I wonder if the eu countries did that wether they would be up to our levels, but I still see this as eu v az for now and no threats should of been made directly at the uk for now. If anything you want them onside

@errolthedragon yes raid could be media speak ? i can't find many other stories on it and can't open the telegraph one