Why should the UK vaccine supply be diverted to Europe?

[lovelemoncurd]

They ordered 3 months later than the UK. They have themselves less time to sort glitches. They have been slow to the table and now they wish to punish to UK for being efficient.

I was a remain voter. I'm starting to change my mind!

Mess, the Commission has had exactly the same time and opportunities as the UK Govt to get all their shit in one sock vaccine wise. They dicked about, and decided not to do so.

Lots of people are dying here, and frankly, having spent 13 years living in Brussels and seeing how the Commission operates, I am more concerned about the UK than I am anywhere else. The Commission are using the vaccine roll out as another step to extending control in the member states, this time in health, and are trying to tie monies from their non existent COVAID relief package to reforms in member sttaes, like in Spain, where they want to see pensions reformed.

The Commission and the EU is not a fluffy pink bunny organisation that wants to put its arms around you and hug you; it wants control and power, that is its reason for being. Don't kid yourself, and don't try to kid me either. I have been cynical about the EU for an awfully long time, and the current reaction to their ineptitude being found out doesn't make me change my stance one iota.

@MessAllOver

Everyone crowing over the EU's failure (and they have failed abjectly, no question about that) should remember that the consequence will be that more people will die.

We should be asking ourselves whether there is anything we can reasonably do to help.

Oh give over! The EU includes some of the wealthiest nations in the world. They messed up vaccine procurement spectacularly. Nobody is 'crowing' over that, but nor is it the responsiblity of anyone other than them. And don't forget that if they had their way, doses of a vaccine they still haven't got round to approving would be left unused in a warehouse rather than being injected into someone's arm.

What could or should Britain do to 'help'?

@MessAllOver do you not think they are hoping for herd immunity ?

Mess, the Commission has had exactly the same time and opportunities as the UK Govt to get all their shit in one sock vaccine wise. They dicked about, and decided not to do so.

There are real people involved, you know. What does an 85 year old in a German or Spanish care home have to do with the Commission's failings?

The Commission and the EU is not a fluffy pink bunny organisation that wants to put its arms around you and hug you; it wants control and power, that is its reason for being. Don't kid yourself, and don't try to kid me either. I have been cynical about the EU for an awfully long time, and the current reaction to their ineptitude being found out doesn't make me change my stance one iota.

Ah, of course, because it's the Commission who is being vaccinated. I thought it was the people of Europe.

We should be asking ourselves whether there is anything we can reasonably do to help.
If you replace "we" with "the European Commission" and have them address it instead as a question to the manufacturers, they might get somewhere.

@MessAllOver

The question is one of need. I need the vaccine much less than an 80 year old in Sao Paulo for two reasons: i) I am much less likely to become seriously ill from catching the virus; and ii) if I do become seriously ill, there are much better medical resources available here in the UK to treat me.

Vulnerable groups in poorer countries face a double disadvantage - no vaccine, no healthcare.

You do know how much money the government has given to the international vaccine scheme towards poorer countries getting the vaccine don't you?

In fact last time I looked we are the largest contributors. That was a few months back so things may have changed.

The amount of help we give abroad it is not in anyones best interest to have the UK buckle.

Our scientists and experts that we fund are helping get not just us but other countries out of this mess. Along side other leading scientists around the world. If the UK gets to a point that we can't function properly or afford this then what?

There are real people involved, you know. What does an 85 year old in a German or Spanish care home have to do with the Commission's failings?

Everything. Since the EU commission is meant to be organising their vaccines. The commissions failings could literally cost their lives.

Everything. Since the EU commission is meant to be organising their vaccines. The commissions failings could literally cost their lives.

Yes. And we could save some of them by delaying the vaccination of our non-vulnerable groups. How wonderful would that be?

What is covax. The programme created by who for supporting disadvantaged countries
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-55795297

EU can F off. Controlling A holes. We have a high death rate.

well that cut through the fat lol

@MessAllOver my understanding is its a short term issue of providing the vaccine to eu , they will get less at first. the uk has not protected its most vulnerable yet and that won't be achieved until likely april/ may .
So far this is between the eu and az and they have not approached the uk goverment .
You keep saying feb but thats one jab , the eu are sticking with the 2 jab , we are gambling slighlty to get more vaccinated as supply does not meet demand for anyone.

if I do become seriously ill, there are much better medical resources available here in the UK to treat me.

If you become seriously ill in the UK at the moment, you are at risk of not getting adequate treatment in the UK AND THAT IS UNLIKELY TO IMPROVE WITHOUT COMPLETE ROLLOUT OF THE VACCINE.

Bangs head against brick wall and gives up.

Mess I am aware that people are involved, but HMG are not responsible for 85 year old Germans or Spaniards - that would be the govts of Germany and Spain who chose to go with the Commission ruling on buying the vaccines under the aegis of the Commission as opposed to individually. I believe it was one Frau Merkel who blocked individual member states buying for themselves, and insisted that it wad one collectively - I think she might just be the Chancellor of Germany (sarcastic in case you missed it), and this was in her term as the six month revolving president of the EU. The 85 year old in the German care home is her responsibility.

As for the Commission being vaccinated, I bet they've been done already.

@MessAllOver

Everything. Since the EU commission is meant to be organising their vaccines. The commissions failings could literally cost their lives.

Yes. And we could save some of them by delaying the vaccination of our non-vulnerable groups. How wonderful would that be?

Taking into account what the Spanish media is reporting nowadays the last thing an 85 yo person in a care home is thinking about is that the British are having his vaccines.

Stories I’ve read :
Hospital managers having the vaccines despite they were not in the list (they’ve resigned) as well as priest and few other friends

Nurses not giving the vaccine to the elderlies they take care of in the care homes so their friend can have them

Mayors and their peers having those vaccine instead of the vulnerable ones

Even the other day it was revealed that a really important militar had had the vaccine despite not being vulnerable (he’s resigned as well)

I’m happy to provide the links but they are in Spanish.

@Waspnest. You're not seriously comparing the care we get under the NHS, even in these stretched times, to what's available in the townships of Malawi and the favelas of Brazil?

I don't know, I'm not an ICU nurse or doctor. Are you?

Personally if the science supported only vaccinating those over a certain age and meant we could get back to a semi normal , I would wait longer for my jab so that a more at risk person could get it.
But I can't guarantee that would happen .
But does anyone know if and when any other jabs may be available / approved as surely the way out of this is more production of vaccines ?

I'm quite far down the list of people to get vaccinated in the UK, I want the vaccine, my wife works with enough covid patients to know, that it is not only vaulable people that die from this virus!

So why should I as a UK tax payer should I give up my vaccine for someone else in another country, when my goverment has used tax payers money to buy it, it's not my fault that the EU was slow to order and the one thing my government has got right

Mess We have an NHS, not an International Health Service. HMG are not responsible for the ills of the world, nor can the UK taxpayer be expected to pay for it all to be made equitable.

You may be an EU lover, but surely you can see that they have screwed this up badly, and that we have no obligation to come to their assistance.

We need to get the UK vaccinated, with both sets of jabs, to get schools open and the economy moving again, so we can start to rebuild. Once that is happening, then we can look at using excess vaccines to help other places if appropriate.

You may be an EU lover

How did you work that one out?

I'm glad that HMG are investing in this www.vmicuk.com/; we'll be well prepared next time.

Mess It is obvious really. You've been defending them all thread.

You've been defending them all thread.

By them, do you mean the Commission? If so, no I haven't.