Do you feel sorry for Boris?

[User133847]

Seeing the headlines in the papers today and there seems a lot of sympathy for him. The front pages see him looking really forlorn and sorrow regarding the death toll.

When you think a year ago he was planning on ushering in what he deemed as a golden age of Britain. Now 12 months later it's in tatters.

I can understand the sympathy, but wonder whether a Labour PM would be offered the same.

People were fed up with Brexit-everyone wanted it done. A deal at the very last minute was crap but he honoured what was started when withdrawal notice was given to Brussels back under May, pandemic or no. And if he hadn't and had extended the transition period, the UK may well be experiencing the vaccine shortages going on in the EU currently.

Well, people were fed up with this lot making a hash of Brexit and seemingly going round and round in negotiations, yes. But if transition had been extended, Brexit could have gone away for a bit, and people wouldn't have been hearing about it to carry on being sick of it. It was reckless in the extreme to try to deal with the pandemic and Brexit together. They clearly wouldn't have been capable of doing one on its own. To try to do both was utterly stupid.

And we ordered our vaccines during transition, the EU has never been involved in our procurement. So no, we wouldn't have been involved in it. That's purely wrong.

But if transition had been extended

Oh FFS - NO.

@Dongdingdong

But if transition had been extended

Oh FFS - NO.

It would've been the responsible thing to do. As much as the leavers wanted to leave, trying to negotiate Brexit AND deal with the pandemic at the same time was reckless, foolhardy and certainly not in the best interests of the country.

I mean, look at the rushed, shit, cobbled together deal we have. It's so bad, the government is advising companies to set up a company in the EU to circumnavigate the red tape its created.

Not one bit. The death of 100,000 lay on him. An absolute dick of a politician that lied and cheated his way through his career, blundered his way through this clusterfuck and lured the majority to vote themselves out of the EU.

He is the only real variable here- yes all leaders would struggle with a pandemic but let's not be naive here. We are literally the worse of many others.

An absolute idiot

He'll get away with all this though

No

I personally don't think a labour leader would economics infront of health- it goes against their ethos. Plus, party aside, the man is a fool and a terrible politician who didn't listen to the science. Cameron or Major or Thatcher would have done 10 times a better a job. So this isn't a party issue necessary

@Dongdingdong

But if transition had been extended

Oh FFS - NO.

I didn’t vote for Brexit but god no here too

So you think it was sensible and in the best interests of the country to try to deal with a pandemic AND negotiate leaving the EU at the same time, @MarshaBradyo?

It was stupidity to even try.

Why is his government blasting people who travel to Dubai to influence people while he trots off to Scotland to influence people?

The worst of it is that if there were to be a pandemic in a decade's time and he was PM, I wouldn't trust him to have learned from his mistakes.

And we ordered our vaccines during transition, the EU has never been involved in our procurement. So no, we wouldn't have been involved in it. That's purely wrong.

I never said that the EU were involved in UK vaccine procurement.
On the contrary, we declined joining the Euro Vaccination scheme because we had left and were transitioning. However, if we'd been a member, we would have encountered the same pressure to be part of the scheme that the French, Italians, German and Dutch did. Article below outlines what happened.

www.bild.de/politik/ausland/politik-inland/with-this-letter-by-jens-spahn-the-vaccine-disaster-in-the-eu-begann-74736986.bild.html

@NoWordForFluffy

So you think it was sensible and in the best interests of the country to try to deal with a pandemic AND negotiate leaving the EU at the same time, *@MarshaBradyo*?

It was stupidity to even try.

No Word What’s so great about the 6 months that you want to wait? Or did you want a year

What specifically would you like to see change and improve due to extra time?

Yes, but we were in transition all through the pandemic. So it's moot about what would've happened had we not been in transition.

@FatCatThinCat

Why is his government blasting people who travel to Dubai to influence people while he trots off to Scotland to influence people?

Are we really comparing influencers with members of the cabinet?

I’ve no love for Boris but I can see that the position of prime minister justifies domestic travel more than an international travel for an influencer.

What specifically would you like to see change and improve due to extra time?

Dealing with both at the same time stretched people in two directions when there wasn't enough time / headspace to deal with both.

It needed to be put on ice so the pandemic could have full attention. I think you're either being disingenuous or you just don't get the issue.

@NoWordForFluffy

What specifically would you like to see change and improve due to extra time?

Dealing with both at the same time stretched people in two directions when there wasn't enough time / headspace to deal with both.

It needed to be put on ice so the pandemic could have full attention. I think you're either being disingenuous or you just don't get the issue.

NoWord No I’m asking you for specifics

Can you list them? With your superior understanding it shouldn’t be hard.

And we ordered our vaccines during transition, the EU has never been involved in our procurement. So no, we wouldn't have been involved in it. That's purely wrong.

Except of course the development of the OAZ vaccine was EU funded......

@NoWordForFluffy

But if transition had been extended

Sure, so you would have been given a chance to sabotage it

@NoWordForFluffy

Yes, but we were in transition all through the pandemic. So it's moot about what would've happened had we not been in transition.

Hardly, that 'moot' point has ensured over 7 million Brits have been vaccinated. It was likely the one thing BoJo and his cabinet has gotten right so far.

@FatCatThinCat

Why is his government blasting people who travel to Dubai to influence people while he trots off to Scotland to influence people

He's the PM remember?

@FatCatThinCat

Why is his government blasting people who travel to Dubai to influence people while he trots off to Scotland to influence people?

You are really comparing the Dubai 'influencers' to the PM? www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/prime-minister-boris-johnson-visit-23402525 The report from the Daily Record (which never supports the Tories) said; "The UK Government has ordered up to 60 million jabs due to be manufactured by the end of 2021 if the vaccine is approved.

Livingston MP, Hannah Bardell, recently told The Courier that the vaccine represented a once in a lifetime investment for West Lothian.

Business Secretary, Kwasi Kwarteng, said: “Thanks to the UK Vaccine Taskforce, we have ordered up to 60 million jabs of Valneva’s promising vaccine if it proves to be safe, effective and suitable in its clinical trials this year.

“By starting manufacturing, we will have a running start at rolling these out as quickly as possible to protect the British public if it receives regulatory approval.

Boris Johnson during a visit to the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital campus in Glasgow.
“This facility in Scotland, backed by millions from the Government, will help us beat coronavirus and boost our resilience against future pandemics.

“The new facility establishes a permanent UK capability to manufacture inactivated viral vaccines – one of the most proven, widely used types which is also used for flu, polio and rabies jabs.

“If the vaccine proves successful and receives regulatory approval following a rigorous assessment of available data, the Livingston facility will have the capacity to produce up to 250 million doses annually for shipment across the UK and around the world.

Scottish Secretary, Alister Jack, said: “It’s incredibly exciting that a potential new Covid-19 vaccine will be manufactured right here in Scotland, at the Valneva plant in Livingston.

“This big step forward is a testament to the talent and hard work of all the Valneva staff who have worked so far to get to this stage.

“The UK government has invested millions into developing the Valneva vaccine, which is also supporting hundreds of highly skilled jobs in Scotland.

Chief executive officer of Valneva, Thomas Lingelbach, said: “We are extremely pleased to have achieved these two important milestones in such a short period of time. Our team in Scotland have done an amazing job to get manufacturing started so quickly.

“I would like to thank the UK Vaccines Taskforce and National Institute for Health Research who have played vital roles in the rapid recruitment and enrolment of the volunteers for the clinical study. We believe that our vaccine, assuming successful development, can make a major contribution in the UK and beyond.”

I'd never heard of the Livingston facility. Well done to the PM for highlighting it.

Just reading more on EU reactions over vaccine situation I’m even more relieved transition period is over.

Much more difficult to negotiate in adverse environment

@justanotherneighinparadise

He had absolutely no right to promise any kind of Christmas at all, especially with the numbers as they were in Oct/Nov. A responsible leader would have been big enough to lay out the bad news properly at an early stage and say it’s just not safe enough this year. *Then he delayed and delayed “cancelling it” for a lot of the country until the message was so late and so muddled that it probably caused more problems. There are so many heartbreaking stories like this.*

www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/mums-agony-four-family-members-23397371

50,000 of the deaths have happened since the 11th Nov. We had the failed tier system (he refused an earlier harder lockdown), Christmas mixing, schools threatened with legal action for not closing then sent back for 1 day... all his to own

No sorry, i don't agree. This shouldn’t be a nanny state and people need to take responsibility for their own actions. I didn’t meet any friends or family over Christmas because I didn’t see the point in risking anyone’s health so close to the vaccine roll out. I made my own choice regardless of what the government said was allowed.

So many people are now incapable of taking personal responsibility. I’m not sure when it happened but it seems to run alongside the victim status that is now so prevalent.

Alt right posturing. "Nanny state" because making sure the vulnerable are safe is "nannying" people. Those people met up because they were told they could. The government told them they could meet. Just like the government told people to send their children to school and threatened to sue schools with rising rates of Covid. They told people to drop the two metre rule in September and go back onto crowded public transport with little ventilation (millions were on tubes), and get back into offices.

Ensuring that great swathes of the population don't die of a global pandemic is not "nannying". It's those kinds of attitudes that have led to public services being cut to the bone and people voted to leave the EU. They were directed to blame and scapegoat immigrants because the government doesn't want them to know we live in a Plutogogy; a cabal of billionaires who have creamed a profit from this pandemic. 11Bn on a failed track and trace, given to a private company with links to the Tories in a private deal ie no competition.

That family are dead because Boris Johnson told people to mix and mingle around Christmas. Mixing around Christmas means visiting shops to buy presents and food, going to petrol stations and getting on trains and buses to travel and that spreads pandemics all over the country.

There are no police to endorse the Covid rules because the Tories got rid off 23,500 police officers.

If we're going to be generous and give Johnson the benefit of the doubt at the beginning of the pandemic, he certainly didn't learn from his mistakes did he? Because half of those dead have died since November 2019. They died because they were sent back into offices and their children were sent back to schools. They've died because they were told it was fine to meet up at Christmas. So don't point the finger at the population because for some reason, you think Johnson is doing a good job and protecting people's lives is "nannying".

@justanotherneighinparadise I’m not defending the stance on Christmas- quite the opposite. We also decided very early on it wasn’t safe enough and stuck to it.

Call it Nanny state if you like; but I think dangling the carrot of “saving Christmas” gave people hope, and the fact that it was “allowed” even thought not advisable meant that people felt they weren’t breaking any rules.
I work with a lot of people who felt incredibly conflicted- yes, they knew it was risky to mix but also they found it difficult to turn down the chance to see family they hadn’t seen for most of the year when they were told it was OK to do so.
A lot of them found it easier to make the decision when the “rules” changed at the last minute (we are in London so no mixing was allowed). I’m not saying it’s right or wrong to feel the way they felt, but I am sure they’re not in the minority.

Similarly lots of us saw that it was too risky to go on holidays abroad last year even though it was “allowed” with the travel corridors. Lots of public health experts warned we would pay for summer holidays with winter lockdowns, and oh, look where we are

And arguably, the countries who have done best have had clear and consistent public health messaging. Ours have been a hot mess, not to mention the Cummings debacle which deeply undermined public trust