Primary schools back sooner than expected?

[deeplybaffled]

It’s hard to know what to believe, but PHE now seem to be suggesting that primary schools can safely return after half term - which seems to contradict all other recent reports and government comments
focussing around Easter!

I know 'key workers' who were debating whether or not to take a school place. If you have a choice then you don't need it!

What’s with mnhq deleting threads with a link to Times dc depression article

Odd

I could have had a KW place, but in the spirit of lockdown have agreed that we would keep them off for now. I don't think any of us will cope until after half term so I will send mine in after February half term, and I know a few key workers who plan to do the same.

@Legseleven1990 heart goes out to you and your DD

Stephen Reicher Sage committee member saying on Twitter why cases taking longer to fall and why ending lockdown is a long way off. Several reasons but his second makes me think it’s definitely not the right time to open primary schools...

“Second, due to the broad definition of 'key worker' there are five times more children in school compared to the first wave. Many classrooms are more than half full. And infections in schools - especially primary schools, are on the increase again since term began.”

@Legseleven1990

I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. Whilst not quite as bad, it's similar for my DD - so many more kids in school this time around and the feeling that we're being mugs for not taking up a keyworker place (DH is apparently a keyworker - not the foggiest idea why). My daughter wondering why so many of her classmates with non keyworker parents are in.

I think there's a way to balance all needs - and it's being done in some countries. It's rotas. So kids are socially distanced, and disease transmission cut right down, but ALL kids get SOME time in school. I've spoken many times of my friends in one of the US States where their child has exactly this form of schooling. He's in school half time socially distanced (and masked) in small class sizes and half time at home, and has been since schools went back after the summer hols. It's consistent and rates in their state haven't gone up that much, so they can continue as they are. No chopping and changing, no widening inequalities between different kids, socialisation some of the time. His parents can plan because they know when he'll be in school and when at home. He seems to be thriving. When I compare what he has at his state school over there and what my kids have here it makes me want to weep (and emigrate).

The only possible reason I can think of that the government isn't at least allowing schools to consider this (given that it's quite clearly working elsewhere) is that they're idiots.

[quote IloveJKRowling]@Legseleven1990

I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. Whilst not quite as bad, it's similar for my DD - so many more kids in school this time around and the feeling that we're being mugs for not taking up a keyworker place (DH is apparently a keyworker - not the foggiest idea why). My daughter wondering why so many of her classmates with non keyworker parents are in.

I think there's a way to balance all needs - and it's being done in some countries. It's rotas. So kids are socially distanced, and disease transmission cut right down, but ALL kids get SOME time in school. I've spoken many times of my friends in one of the US States where their child has exactly this form of schooling. He's in school half time socially distanced (and masked) in small class sizes and half time at home, and has been since schools went back after the summer hols. It's consistent and rates in their state haven't gone up that much, so they can continue as they are. No chopping and changing, no widening inequalities between different kids, socialisation some of the time. His parents can plan because they know when he'll be in school and when at home. He seems to be thriving. When I compare what he has at his state school over there and what my kids have here it makes me want to weep (and emigrate).

The only possible reason I can think of that the government isn't at least allowing schools to consider this (given that it's quite clearly working elsewhere) is that they're idiots.[/quote]
JK do they have the same set up with some dc of essential workers needing to be in or is it all dc getting the same rota?

@ThePricklySheep

Sorry for the delay. Go to 10 in the table of contents.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/22january2021#positive-tests-that-are-compatible-with-the-new-uk-variant

@CKBJ Cases have dropped from 68000 reported cases on 8th Jan (less than 20 days ago) to 22000 reported yesterday and Stephen Reicher says we're 'just turning a corner' wtf? Cases are steadily dropping 25% per week. Not evenly across the country, but even in cases which are lagging behind the SE outbreak cases are now plateaued and will start to fall significantly over the next fortnight.

@Hollyhead The fact that cases have fallen so rapidly since January proves that it is safer to have things closed than to have them open. It doesn’t prove that it’s ok to open up again.

Pretty straightforward really.

I wasn’t saying it was safe to reopen yet @SnowGnome, but I am finding the pessimism from the government and scientists verging on gaslighting now.

But you see the dilemma? We have absolutely no plans and no measures to stop the virus spreading again once we lift lockdown.

Again.

Nothing has changed and no lessons are being learned. We don’t really know the efficacy of one vaccine dose, and personally I don’t understand why so many people in non-priority groups are so casual about letting a disease fly round that could cause an acute illness at best, long term organ damage, fatigue and cognitive problems at least worst but quite likely, and at worst death since the new variant shows no one is immune.

So the point the scientists are making is that unless something else changes we’d be making the same mistakes all over again. And there are no signs of anything else changing.

The PHE data is widely rubbished as being underreporting cases because it only reports tests from (some) symptomatic people. It depends on 1) people having symptoms and 2) people going for a test. ONS data is far more accurate because it’s a random probability sample if the whole population. It’s statistics clearly showed that school age children including primary were heavily affected.

The govt and it’s utterly useless education secretary are doing nothing but trying to cover their own mistakes by putting off worst case decisions (eg school closures) as long as possible to the detriment of spread. Why else would they have said schools are safe one day and then closed them the next. And the No 10 spin about “he meant safe for children so he was right” was bollocks. It’s nothing but propaganda and trying to pander to sceptics who seem to think 100,000 deaths is an acceptable price to pay.

And I used to be a conservative voter.

So to make my position clear, all of you lot who are clamouring for schools to open.... if you put your energy into calling for measures to make them SAFE instead of banging heads against brick walls again and thinking somehow it will be different this time even though we are making the same mistakes, maybe we’d get somewhere.

I would like to know where those going on about the mental health of children have been for the last ten years or so whilst the provision for this has been decimated?
This kerps getting trotted out on every thread about schools re-opening? Why so chippy? And even if it were true, though you have no way of knowing that, a ‘sinner redeemed’ should be celebrated and welcomed into the fold not castigated 😀

@SnowGnome

So to make my position clear, all of you lot who are clamouring for schools to open.... if you put your energy into calling for measures to make them SAFE instead of banging heads against brick walls again and thinking somehow it will be different this time even though we are making the same mistakes, maybe we’d get somewhere.

And your suggestion for safe is?

@EmmanuelleMakro but you can’t escape the fact that some people only really care about what affects them. Sadly I think this has been a big part of the problem in the UK, we think of ourselves first, others second. Without realising that if society is functioning well then we will be able to live our lives as we want to.

That’s where we’ve gone wrong.

@MarshaBradyo ffs there are thousands of threads on that and more importantly many many more ways to make things better than if we did nothing.... better TTI, masks in schools, smaller bubbles, scrap school transport, better ventilation, part time schooling for essential subjects, you name it. If you want to unpick any of them there are threads where you can do that

[quote SnowGnome]@EmmanuelleMakro but you can’t escape the fact that some people only really care about what affects them. Sadly I think this has been a big part of the problem in the UK, we think of ourselves first, others second. Without realising that if society is functioning well then we will be able to live our lives as we want to.

That’s where we’ve gone wrong.[/quote]
Yet we’ve been doing lock down for large sections of the year and not only for our own personal risk,

People do see the worst in others it’s true. Especially here.

Problem is someone will always come along and go “well that doesn’t work for [insert name of group of people just like me so I can pretend it’s a big issue when really I only care about myself]”

[quote SnowGnome]@MarshaBradyo ffs there are thousands of threads on that and more importantly many many more ways to make things better than if we did nothing.... better TTI, masks in schools, smaller bubbles, scrap school transport, better ventilation, part time schooling for essential subjects, you name it. If you want to unpick any of them there are threads where you can do that[/quote]
Bit of a cop out

Yes let’s do all that

You’ll find we already have small class sizes so you’ll need a solution

We’ve been doing lockdown because it’s been enforced. The reasons that better measures were not enforced (earlier lockdowns etc) is purely because so many people were complaining

@SnowGnome

We’ve been doing lockdown because it’s been enforced. The reasons that better measures were not enforced (earlier lockdowns etc) is purely because so many people were complaining

Enforced how?

Why do so many comply when there’s no real threat not to

Not a cop out in the slightest @MarshaBradyo. The point is if we go back without changing anything we make the same mistakes all over again. I can’t fathom why people don’t understand that.

@SnowGnome

Not a cop out in the slightest *@MarshaBradyo*. The point is if we go back without changing anything we make the same mistakes all over again. I can’t fathom why people don’t understand that.

We get it but you listing on here doesn’t change logistical and practical issues.

So yeh ok me too. I want extra space and extra teachers. Small classes. Outside school

Great that’ll do it then

Why do so many comply when there’s no real threat not to

Ridiculous question. We live in a rules based system.

@SnowGnome

Why do so many comply when there’s no real threat not to

Ridiculous question. We live in a rules based system.

No you missed the question

Enforced how?